Topic: E85 plus bigger turbo?

[Lithium]

So, a little explanation first....

I live in Albuquerque New Mexico elevation aprox 5000'.  Our DA here is ussually 7500' but the lowest I've ever seen it during the spring/fall/summer is 4500' and has been as high as 10200'.  I plan on switching back to dino fuel over the winter, but I am currently on E85 on the stock turbo.  I love the way the E85 smooths out the engine, and after doing hours/days/weeks of study online over the properties of E85 along with E85 test on our motors I have decided that other than the 3 months during the middle of winter, when the car is barely being driven, I would like to stay on E85. 

I also want more power.  I am currently looking into a full standalone nitrous setup with standalone fuel.  But if I could go bigger turbo on the E I would rather do that.

I know that some individuals have out run the pumps on E85 on the stock setup, up here though, it is impossible due to the altitude.  I don't travel outside of about 50 miles in the car, and I do daily it all spring/summer/fall.  If I ever needed to go to dino fuel I can get intouch with vince and swap tunes.

The question is:  Can I go to a bigger turbo (Gt2871 or FP68HTA or Mitsu20G) and run E85.  Can I do it running 50/50?

[elff]

The answer is Yes and you will get similar power as full E85 with better gas mileage.

Do a search for 40rty on SkyRoadster.com

He is doing a 2871 build and will be using E47 or E85 with it to break 400+ HP

[miller11386]

if you are doing stand alone fuel, why not run e85? You can put on some FIC 2150s, a bigger in tank pump and fuel anything up to 800+hp without fueling issues.

Now how is it simple to do? No, but if you are talking about stand alone fuel and nitrous, you are spending the big boy money, even if you do the work yourself. Also tuning will be a challenge to not grenade the motor and you will need to build the engine to take the power.

[elff]

It's been shown lately that a 50-50 mix of 93 and E85 nets the same power with better gas mileage.
It's also been shown that Meth doesn't really help our cars all that much due to the Direct Injection.

[rlhammon]

if you are doing stand alone fuel, why not run e85? You can put on some FIC 2150s, a bigger in tank pump and fuel anything up to 800+hp without fueling issues.

I'm confused by this... it's been shown multiple times that the in-tank (LPFP) is not the fueling issue when running E85, it's the HPFP that is.

I'm also confused as to why anyone needs more power than what the E85 provides on a stock turbo.  I ran an autocross last weekend on street tires (did morning event on Hoosiers, after noon fun runs on street tires - stock Goodyear F1's), and with a 50/50 mix (93 octane / E85) I continued to spin the tires well above 60 MPH.  Trying to do a no lift shift with the stock tires was very interesting and almost caused the car to spin out.  Granted, when I race I turn of TC/ESC, and I'm guessing (hoping) on the street people leave those on... but honestly I can't see a need for that level of power as it's not useful... it doesn't transfer through the tires in acceleration, but rather in spin.  Heck, I can break loose a set of Hoosier A6's in second gear if I'm not careful about how I get on the accelerator out of a corner.

As to the question... I don't see any issue with what Lithium wants to do.  In your situation I think it's perfectly viable.

[miller11386]

if you are running "stand alone" fueling, you are either plugging the DI injectors and fueling with port injectors only, or you are fueling with a combo of PI/DI. so fueling is not an issue... power is limited to what your motor can take without lifting the head or throwing a rod through the pan.

I understand in Auto X, E85 and stock turbo is plenty of power, however 60-160 pulls can utilize just a bit more than the 30mph runs you do in auto X. Also drag racing is another sport that more HP helps..

Different strokes for different folks

[rlhammon]

if you are running "stand alone" fueling, you are either plugging the DI injectors and fueling with port injectors only, or you are fueling with a combo of PI/DI. so fueling is not an issue... power is limited to what your motor can take without lifting the head or throwing a rod through the pan.

I understand in Auto X, E85 and stock turbo is plenty of power, however 60-160 pulls can utilize just a bit more than the 30mph runs you do in auto X. Also drag racing is another sport that more HP helps..

Different strokes for different folks

Understand different strokes for different folks... just thought it was intended for street driving from the OP's information.  In any event, I'm not sure how you run port injection on this engine without DI, but that's for another thread.  In any event, the stock LPFP provides plenty of fuel as it is... there's no need to update it for the OP's question.

And... before you go ahead and comment on the "30 mph runs" I do... you should sit in my passenger seat and see what it's like.  The only time I'm at 30 MPH is as I pass it by at the start of 2nd gear. 

I can't go to the local drag strip... once you break into the 12s they log your VIN and won't let you back on the track.  I'm planning on putting my car on the dyno at ZZP tomorrow for their LNF meet.  I'd be interested in seeing what your car does as you indicate it has more power than mine... because it's needed for "60-160" pulls.  It's always good to see what I'm leaving on the table.

[miller11386]

Understand different strokes for different folks... just thought it was intended for street driving from the OP's information.  In any event, I'm not sure how you run port injection on this engine without DI, but that's for another thread.  In any event, the stock LPFP provides plenty of fuel as it is... there's no need to update it for the OP's question.

And... before you go ahead and comment on the "30 mph runs" I do... you should sit in my passenger seat and see what it's like.  The only time I'm at 30 MPH is as I pass it by at the start of 2nd gear. 

I can't go to the local drag strip... once you break into the 12s they log your VIN and won't let you back on the track.  I'm planning on putting my car on the dyno at ZZP tomorrow for their LNF meet.  I'd be interested in seeing what your car does as you indicate it has more power than mine... because it's needed for "60-160" pulls.  It's always good to see what I'm leaving on the table.

Not knocking the auto X. its definitely intense! Just a different need for power. I just know that its a lot easier to break tires free and spin while turning that it is on a highway/drag strip pull.

Let me know what you think of the guys at ZZP. Really interested in seeing what you think of them.

And my car currently has 0 hp. and is inoperable.

[SKY888]

The question is:  Can I go to a bigger turbo (Gt2871 or FP68HTA or Mitsu20G) and run E85.  Can I do it running 50/50?

to make things easier for you .........big power (E85 and GT2871 turbo)......


get aftermarket cams w/ big fuel lobe w/ your gt2871 turbo........and 50/50 mix.

Easy 400-450whp w/o having fueling issues 

that's perfect whp for that sized turbo and the other turbos you mentioned.




once you go more than 500whp.....then you'll need extra PI injectors/fuel set-up with the use of ethanol

[Lithium]

So, I have decided I don't like the quote system in this forum because it makes it very hard to respond to multiple individuals in one post.

That being said, I run with a crowd that is composed of very high HP vehicles.  I also street race along with running at the track, so when I say street I don't mean running to your local coffee shop.

I am currently in the high 12's up here.  I haven't actually ran at the track because for a vert you have to have a 6point cage if you run less than a 13.99.  I ran a 14.33 at 99.98 with a 2.56 60' stock.  Haven't run it at the drag stip since.  I do run it at Napa Motorsports park (previously Sandia Motor Speedway). 

I would like to cut into the 11's.  Thats why I was thinking about nitrous.  I don't want to have more lag with a "big" turbo because Napa Motorsports park is a fairly small course.  So, if I can run 50/50 on a gt2871 it would be okay.  It would be perfect if I could run straight e85 on the gt2871 or comparable.  I figure 400-420whp and 450wtq should net mehigh 11's area with 115-117 trap.

I'm currently right around the 310-320whp mark and 400wtq mark (compared to others with same tune stock).  I was 293whp and 348wtq on the trifecta 93 tune but I have not dynoed it since going to E85.  Its just on the street tune right now.  some of my closer races on the street have been:

Ran a 4th gen camaro that runs consistent 12-12.2 at 110-112.  Lost by a to a car depending on the race
Ran a twin turbo g35 (15 grand in the motor) automatic that cuts consistent 12.5's @108 and lost by a car on on the low end, but dead even up top.

I use those two for my guesstimate at where I'm at.  Of course I've run others, but those two are always at the dragstrip u here and I've probably run both more times than I can count on my hands.

So yeah, I want 7-9mph in trap speed and a second off the clock.

[Gentleman Jack]

All that sound like a ton of fun!

[Kelu]

If is only for drag racing, go nitrous.

[Gentleman Jack]

Any way to lose 100 pounds?

Just thinking of alternatives.

[elff]

If you lose unsprung weight,  you don't have to shed as much.

[Lithium]

Already lost unsprung weight.  I have 18x8 OZ Ultraleggeras on.   18lbs a piece compared to the 26lb stockers.  The car is fairly light as it is.  It weighs in at 2953 with a half tank. Oh, and I fixed it lol.  I meant I want to lose a full second off the clock with an improvement of 7-9mph in the trap.  LOL.  So I don't think I can lose 1000lbs. LOL.  Don't know why I said a tenth more like .7 to a full second.

For Clarity sake:

Now: approx 12.7-13.xx @ 108-110
Want: <11.99 @ 115-117

[elff]

You could lose 22lbs more up front with the brake kit I have.

[Lithium]

You could lose 22lbs more up front with the brake kit I have.

read my fix to the previous post.  LOL

[miller11386]

Sounds like you need a motor build, bigger turbo, and some wider tires.

If you just want the track performance without driving on the street, you could get a custom gear in the rear end done to let you accelerate faster, however it would obviously decrease mpgs if you drove it on the street that way.

I too am shooting for 11's at the track. I figure just north of 500hp with some 8.5" wide slicks should be close to getting the time I want. This is assuming you keep stock ratios on all the gears and dont change the final drive gear ratio.

The biggest problem is that fueling dies off at just before 500hp. So to break the 500hp barrier, it requires some extensive modifications to the fueling system... however once you do that, sky is the limit

[Brazen17]

Do you think the bigger turbo lag would be about the same as the stock? That is the biggest thing holding me back from upgrading. It would certainly be cheaper than a V8 conversion but I don't want any more lag than we currently have (which is very little).

[Gentleman Jack]

Dual turbo set up?  Or what ever it is that the new bummers are using?

[Brazen17]

Dual turbo set up?  Or what ever it is that the new bummers are using?

I've heard the dual setup works well in eliminating the lag but wouldn't the $$$ justify the V8? Or at least a DIY V8 install? I must admit I know zero about turbo charging but I think I could do an engine swap.

[miller11386]

Do you think the bigger turbo lag would be about the same as the stock? That is the biggest thing holding me back from upgrading. It would certainly be cheaper than a V8 conversion but I don't want any more lag than we currently have (which is very little).

Its called "Anti-lag" or a "2 step launch control" It pulses the wastegate and allows you to build boost at 0mph and launch with the system primed. Here are the two styles that I have seen.

Genesis Coupe 2-Step launch

WRX STi 2 Step (Launch Control)