Topic: T56 Conversion

[wspohn]

Oops, I meant the AZ6 (which was in non-V CTSs), but the main thing I'd be considering is shift quality. T-56 doesn't feel as nice as an AR5 or a lot of other transmissions, regardless of the car it's in.

The stock AR5 is no shining example of good shifting transmissions!  Compared to others, it is notchy and sometimes a bit balky.  I have old British boxes that I can shift like silk with a couple of fingers, with gear splits about 1400 rpm apart at 7,000 that are a delight (too bad that they have crappy synchro durability).

I haven't driven anything with the successor to the T-56, the TR-6060, so can't comment, although they continue in having a 5 speed with the 5th gear being a normal OD ratio and then tack on a super long (and therefor irrelevant to performance) 6th OD ratio.  Wish they'd do what other cars (including a BMW I own) do and have the 6th as a normal OD (0.7-0.8) ratio and the rest of the gears closer together with 5th being the 1:1 instead of 4th.

Looked up the 6060 and it appears that they spent considerable effort to make sure the synchro action was durable - nothing I saw spoke to how smoothly it shifts.  Maybe someone that has driven one can comment.

[Dave@DDMworks]

The 6060's are a much nicer transmission when you drive them compared to the T56. We switched over to the 6060's with the V8 conversions we did and driving one compared to the T56 ones was definitely noticeable. There are a lot of nice touches on the 6060 other than the synchro's and if you can do it, highly recommend it over the T56.

[slab8]

The stock AR5 is no shining example of good shifting transmissions!  Compared to others, it is notchy and sometimes a bit balky.  I have old British boxes that I can shift like silk with a couple of fingers, with gear splits about 1400 rpm apart at 7,000 that are a delight (too bad that they have crappy synchro durability).

Compared to the T-56, the AR5 is fantastic (aside from the ratios.) And that's not just in a Solstice, that's in cars that originally came with a T-56.

Haven't driven a TR-6060 to compare, so no comment on that.

[marksbug]

 old thread.. but hear it go's. does any body  know what trans the 6 speed 06-10 cts & such had? wonder if thier is a bell housing made for that. also the subi/tiodi brz has a 6 speed that may fit the bill with a addapptor.... I get a cts 3.42 rear end to get some gears from but Im sure it will be rong ratio for our trans ratios. I also need a solstice rear end to swap the gears into. be nice to find a dead one cheep....

[Uranium-238]

old thread.. but hear it go's. does any body  know what trans the 6 speed 06-10 cts & such had? wonder if thier is a bell housing made for that. also the subi/tiodi brz has a 6 speed that may fit the bill with a addapptor.... I get a cts 3.42 rear end to get some gears from but Im sure it will be rong ratio for our trans ratios. I also need a solstice rear end to swap the gears into. be nice to find a dead one cheep....

1st gen CTS-V's had a T56.

But don't bother if you buy one new, just get a TR6060 and don't look back. Also be sure and NOT use a GM master cylinder, get a quality adjustable one from the aftermarket.

If you're looking for a junkyard T56 then maybe, but the TR6060 is still better.

[marksbug]

thanks !! Ill do some more thinken.

[marksbug]

junk yard tr 6060 is $800&up. then what ever addaptors to make it fit the 2.4 ecotec...I could make a motor plate if i had the locations on my mill. but I was looken at the gear ratios...not much different like 5th is like .84 but the 6th gear ir better for highway.I was hoping 1st would be a little lower,I think 2nd has more of a spread than the ar has....still thinken.I would for sure need some forced induction if I went this way...and the lottery numbers in advance.of corse I wouldent need to change the rear gear with the new 6th gear ratio(I ferget what it is .57 I think, but probably rong, way  too much stuff & numbers in my head this month) the new tr has removable bell housing the old tr it was part of the trans..not sure what year change was made, or if the cars got the change or just the after market tr6060 magnum trans.like I said still thinken.

[Uranium-238]

Something else to remember is there are many flavors of TR6060...each with their own gear ratios:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremec_TR-6060_transmission#Selected_gear_ratios

[marksbug]

 the charts I saw didnt have that falcon listed....it does have a much better 1st. 2nd could use some help, there are some noice combos, but not all combos could be used togeather...and if they could.... dam I couldent afford it.

[marksbug]

 does any body know if the new cammarow with the LTG turbo 4 cylinder 2.0 has the same bellhoussing as the le5 engines? that might be another way to go I think it's a tr3060 trans, gm just calls it LTG 6 speed. I cant seem to find any info on it, chevy performance hasent a clue....witch isant a suprize to me. it's also in some turbo 2.0 ltg  Cadillac's starting in 2016 from what Ive read.

[Critterman]

Do you mean Camaro?

[TomatoSoup]

Do you mean Camaro?

One thing I've noticed from marksbug's posts, is that he has some fairly 'inventive' spelling

[Sol Asylum]

http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/ltg/

The Cadillac is using the M3L-TR3160 trans which I assume is what they would use in the Camaro.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremec_TR-3160_transmission

PS if this doesn't make sense let me know and I can f'up the spelling for you.

[elff]

It's bad when Critterman corrects your spelling.

[marksbug]

yup thats it, the ltg TR3160 trans in the cammarow...,does it fit the le5? yes some times my spelling is a little off, sometimes it's me.... the camarow ratios look pertty good for our cars...heck even the cts ratios look good and we could change rear ratios if desired for a better highway gear ratio and still have a good 1~ 5th.  but still cant find any real specs on the trans engine combo to see if the trans will work in our cars.or shitter location...oops shifter .
  I do like the ltg engine and a complete swap wouldn't be bad if.......but then a v8 would be the choice...unless your like me want better mpg and better power..kinda wish I had got a car that wasent as nice as mine(also a lot cheeper) then that would be a real option for me.

[Dave@DDMworks]

yup thats it, the ltg TR3160 trans in the cammarow...,does it fit the le5? yes some times my spelling is a little off, sometimes it's me.... the camarow ratios look pertty good for our cars...heck even the cts ratios look good and we could change rear ratios if desired for a better highway gear ratio and still have a good 1~ 5th.  but still cant find any real specs on the trans engine combo to see if the trans will work in our cars.or shitter location...oops shifter .
  I do like the ltg engine and a complete swap wouldn't be bad if.......but then a v8 would be the choice...unless your like me want better mpg and better power..kinda wish I had got a car that wasent as nice as mine(also a lot cheeper) then that would be a real option for me.

The bellshousing that is on the stock Camaro and Cadillac version of the transmission will definitely not bolt to the LE5 or LNF engines as the 3rd Gen Ecotec's found in those vehicles have the starter in a completely different location and the bolt pattern is completely different. The LTG has the exhaust and intake sides flipped from the LE5 and LNF engines, I am sure someone could do the swap, but not sure why you would go through all that effort, for what benefit? You may be able to remove the bellhousing from the AR5 and swap it onto the newer 6 speed, but from the pictures I have seen, I would highly doubt this is going to be a plug and play swap. Good luck with it.

[marksbug]

 no it wouldent be a bell housing swap ar to a tr...not gonna happen, but machining a motor plate would be no issue.it would of been easyer if they were the same. darn the luck..I would have to have both bell housings hear to plot it out on my mill, I have seen some bell housings that will take a starter on either side and was hopeing this was the case, but since the rest of different....dang the luck. more thinking to do,,hope my hair dont catch fire. if I dont stop hurting my self nothing is gonna get done.

[agent008]

Hi, I'm new to the forum, just recently introduced myself and told a little about my ideas for a 2008 GXP I'm about to purchase -- http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php?topic=11979.new#new

Regarding a Manual transmission swap. I wonder if anyone here would have the basic dimensions of the AR5 x T56 X 5L40E transmissions?

I'm trying to compare them with a brazilian market GM S-10 gearbox, an Eaton-Fuller unit (FSO-2405). I actually have one of thes in stock, same box but the Nissan Frontier variant (2405J) wich is rated for up to 368lbft torque (500Nm) and has a different bellhousing.

The plan is to check its dimensions against the AR5's and see if it could fit given a proper bellhousing is installed into it. Come to think of it, what is the bols pattern on the LNF? Is it the so-called Ecotec 4 cylinder pattern? Which Wikipedia says is the same as the HFV6 "late" pattern. But, the "earlier" HFV6 uses its own pattern?

Sorry if put out too many questions at once, I am trying to do my research before getting to do things.

Thanks in advance!

[Sly Bob]

This site might help find the dimensions you are looking for. This is the page with the T56 dimensions.

https://help.summitracing.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2505/~/manual-transmission-dimensions

AR5?
https://imgur.com/t/fabbotfab/ZqjQ8is?nc=1

[Steelmesh]

Hi, I'm new to the forum, just recently introduced myself and told a little about my ideas for a 2008 GXP I'm about to purchase -- http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php?topic=11979.new#new

Regarding a Manual transmission swap. I wonder if anyone here would have the basic dimensions of the AR5 x T56 X 5L40E transmissions?

I'm trying to compare them with a brazilian market GM S-10 gearbox, an Eaton-Fuller unit (FSO-2405). I actually have one of thes in stock, same box but the Nissan Frontier variant (2405J) wich is rated for up to 368lbft torque (500Nm) and has a different bellhousing.

The plan is to check its dimensions against the AR5's and see if it could fit given a proper bellhousing is installed into it. Come to think of it, what is the bols pattern on the LNF? Is it the so-called Ecotec 4 cylinder pattern? Which Wikipedia says is the same as the HFV6 "late" pattern. But, the "earlier" HFV6 uses its own pattern?

Sorry if put out too many questions at once, I am trying to do my research before getting to do things.

Thanks in advance!

You may be interested in some things I looked at with a trans swap starting at reply #396
http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php/topic,11551.msg196964.html#msg196964

The conclusion is it will cost thousands of dollars so I might do the swap when I move into an LS [by purchasing a complete T-56'd F-body car].  I'm a cheapass too.

The Ecotec bellhousing bolt pattern is the same as a 2JZ, based on the internet and infinity/supra people stealing our used Solstice configured AR5s.  I sold quite a few slave cylinder AN adapter fittings to these Toyota people.