Topic: V8 worth the costs?

[ihawk95]

Oh, and just for good measure...

http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php?topic=4437.0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXGYX9DDbGk

Mommy!!!  Nice!!

They have another video at 938 hp.

Saturn Sky 938rwhp.avi

[miller11386]

If that was autocorrect dropping the "supra" in there, I want your phone. That is some witty shi7.

I dont even know what you are referring to GJ. go home you're drunk

[Sol Asylum]

If you read the article, it says the GM Performance engineers were involved with the build.  They got the car from GM before it was titled and the engineers helped to fit the engine and worked on a lot of the weight reduction calcs.

Unless the article is full of chit?

Sorry I last read that article when it came out like in 06 I think.  Good chance I don't recall all the finer points.  I do remember it was red and thats all that matters.

[LatinVenom]

We are talking about a V8 swap for most of the people here and not the LS7 build that does not even have a list price.

The new C7 is about what your V8 Kappa conversion will cost you(including your Kappa cost) 20K to 40K plus your car.

My C7 if I get it will be $66,870 including destination charges
2LT Z51 1YX07
Nav system $795.00
Chrome Aluminum wheels $1995.00
Battery protection Package $100.00
Red Calipers $595.00
NPP exhaust $1195.00
Magnetic Selective Ride Control $1795.00
Sueded Microfiber inserts $395.00
Crystal Red Tintcoat $995.00
Kalahari interior.

This is NOT your OLD Corvette, there is NOTHING like this on the streets today.
Yes, in the future there will be many, but that is not the reason for making my purchase.
This car is ALL NEW inside and out.
0 to 60 in less than 4 seconds and it out performs the Grand Sport 2012 by a few seconds at VIR.
Why put out 20K to 30K plus the original cost of my Kappa to get a less over all car than the NEW C7.

I will keep my 2007 GXP and enjoy that wonderful turbo with all the suspension mods.
Then if I do get the C7 it should be a different experience while enjoying all the NEW technology this car offers.

Have fun with your V8 Kappa conversions, it will never be a C7 Vette.

[2kwk4u]

I'm not here to bash anyone's choices.  I respect everyone's opinions.  My V8 Kappa (if/when I build one) will never be a C7 Vette? 

Hmmm.... nope, still doesn't change my mind.  It will also never be a Jeep Grand Cherokee, Moto Guzzi Griso 8V SE, Ariel Atom, Ferrari 599, or cigarette boat.  I'm cool with that.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't mind having any of the others as well. 

The point is, if a person wants to do a V8 conversion, the person has his/her reasons - and he/she is free to spend his/her hard-earned money as he/she sees fit.  Again, we've all already spent a chunk of change on cars that most people believe aren't "worth it" in the first place.  But we had our reasons.

LV, thanks for everything you've done for the Kappa community.  I hope you stick around after you get your C7.  It will never be a V8 Kappa, though

[ChopTop]

Exactly, I don't see this discussion as a Kappa vs Corvette, as much as I see it as a big FU to GM for not having the balls (wisdom) to during the great carpocalypse to retire (or mothball) the kappa program until the economy improved.  To GMs why of thinking it's one sports car or; Nada.  When the reality is not every GM fanboy wants a land yacht for a sports car.  Plus rumor's are already swirling that a less powerful (less expensive) Corvette is being planned.  Why?  Because GM is acknowledging that by continuing to take the Corvette upmarket that it will become too expensive too sell in the numbers it did previously along with being able to justify one factory and its workforce. 

However, GM is again missing the point in that it's not about a cheaper Corvette as much as it's customer's who want a totally different looking platform.  For all the improvements made to the Corvette it still seems like a water down version of a vehicle they've appeared to be emulating for the last two decades; Ferrari.

The Kappa II could have provided basis that this was not just another sports car being built to emulate another manufacture but that it was being cultivated to begin building a long-term, loyal following base.  GM could have take the positive parts of the Kappa/SKY/GT attributes , combines and revolutionized them to come up with a product that was truly unique.  It wouldn't of been Hello Kitty in size and wouldn't have to be as long as a landyatch.  If I was a designer I'd be shooting for about 170 inches long.  Similar to what both Porsche Cayman, Jaguar F Type, and upcoming new Honda NSX have done with their mid size sports car line ups because unlike GM they have accepted that consumers really appreciate variety of lengths from a sports car manufactures. 

However, GM remains both stubborn and stuck in the past by believing that one sports car can offer enough varieties that consumers will never think that underneath it all it's really just the same basic platform with different bells & whistles and modified body panels so no one knows it's all the the same model once all those body panels are stripped away.

[miller11386]

I was just referring to the C6's when I said to "get a vette". At the 23-30k mark, the car would cost less than most peoples conversion. Its a cost effective move in todays economy to just purchase a vette rather than pay 20-30k for a V8 swap.

[Gentleman Jack]

I was just referring to the C6's when I said to "get a vette". At the 23-30k mark, the car would cost less than most peoples conversion. Its a cost effective move in todays economy to just purchase a vette rather than pay 20-30k for a V8 swap.

Says the guy who bought a used car and did a huge engine conversion..... Instead of just buying a used C6.

[ihawk95]

Exactly, I don't see this discussion as a Kappa vs Corvette, as much as I see it as a big FU to GM for not having the balls (wisdom) to during the great carpocalypse to retire (or mothball) the kappa program until the economy improved.  To GMs why of thinking it's one sports car or; Nada.  When the reality is not every GM fanboy wants a  for a land yacht sports car.  Plus rumor's are already swirly that a less powerful (less expensive) Corvette is being planned. 

However, GM is again missing the point in that it's not about a cheaper Corvette as much as it's customer's who want a totally different looking platform.  For all the improvements made to the Corvette it still seems like a water down version of a vehicle they've appeared to be emulating for the last two decades; Ferrari.

The Kappa II could have provided basis that this was not just another sports car being built to emulate another manufacture but that it was being cultivated to begin building a long-term, loyal following base.  GM could have take the positive parts of the Kappa/SKY/GT attributes , combines and revolutionized them to come up with a product that was truly unique.  It wouldn't of been Hello Kitty in size and wouldn't have to be as long as a land yatch.  If I was a designer I'd be shooting for about 170 inches long.  Similar to what both Porsche Cayman, Jaguar F Type, and upcoming new Honda NSX have done with their mid size sports car line ups because unlike GM they have accepted that consumers really appreciate variety of lengths from a sports car manufactures. 

However, GM remains both stubborn and stuck in the past by believing that one sports car can offer enough varieties that consumers will never think that underneath it all it's really just the same basic platform with different bells & whistles and modified body panels so no one knows it's all the the same model once all those body panels are stripped away.

  Completely.

[Sol Asylum]

Says the guy who bought a used car and did a huge engine conversion..... Instead of just buying a used C6.

Yeah good point, surly he's got close to the 23-30K in the Toyota project that it would have cost him to buy the used C6 so why didn't he get the vett since that seems to be what he has wanted all along?

[kevin2323]

We are talking about a V8 swap for most of the people here and not the LS7 build that does not even have a list price.

The new C7 is about what your V8 Kappa conversion will cost you(including your Kappa cost) 20K to 40K plus your car.

My C7 if I get it will be $66,870 including destination charges
2LT Z51 1YX07
Nav system $795.00
Chrome Aluminum wheels $1995.00
Battery protection Package $100.00
Red Calipers $595.00
NPP exhaust $1195.00
Magnetic Selective Ride Control $1795.00
Sueded Microfiber inserts $395.00
Crystal Red Tintcoat $995.00
Kalahari interior.

This is NOT your OLD Corvette, there is NOTHING like this on the streets today.
Yes, in the future there will be many, but that is not the reason for making my purchase.
This car is ALL NEW inside and out.
0 to 60 in less than 4 seconds and it out performs the Grand Sport 2012 by a few seconds at VIR.
Why put out 20K to 30K plus the original cost of my Kappa to get a less over all car than the NEW C7.

I will keep my 2007 GXP and enjoy that wonderful turbo with all the suspension mods.
Then if I do get the C7 it should be a different experience while enjoying all the NEW technology this car offers.

Have fun with your V8 Kappa conversions, it will never be a C7 Vette.

god that thing is hideous.....wow

[miller11386]

Says the guy who bought a used car and did a huge engine conversion..... Instead of just buying a used C6.

No engine conversion. It still has the same 3.0L inline six it came from the factory with

Yeah good point, surly he's got close to the 23-30K in the Toyota project that it would have cost him to buy the used C6 so why didn't he get the vett since that seems to be what he has wanted all along?

It's not what I wanted all along. I wanted something faster in a straight line than a C6... I would have needed a TT kit as well as a built motor, engine work, custom fab, etc. etc.

[Sol Asylum]

I would have needed a TT kit as well...

That's a phrase I hoped to never hear anyone say.

[LatinVenom]

I'm not here to bash anyone's choices.  I respect everyone's opinions.  My V8 Kappa (if/when I build one) will never be a C7 Vette? 

Hmmm.... nope, still doesn't change my mind.  It will also never be a Jeep Grand Cherokee, Moto Guzzi Griso 8V SE, Ariel Atom, Ferrari 599, or cigarette boat.  I'm cool with that.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't mind having any of the others as well. 

The point is, if a person wants to do a V8 conversion, the person has his/her reasons - and he/she is free to spend his/her hard-earned money as he/she sees fit.  Again, we've all already spent a chunk of change on cars that most people believe aren't "worth it" in the first place.  But we had our reasons.

LV, thanks for everything you've done for the Kappa community.  I hope you stick around after you get your C7.  It will never be a V8 Kappa, though

I do not know if you missed it but I said the 2007 GXP will stay with me.
I respect fully what others want to do. Honestly to me I rather wait for someone that has done one and then want to sell.
Look at the one from our Kappa community that just sold for $38K at the auction.
In my mind I cannot rationalize the expenditure to make the Kappa a V8.

[2kwk4u]

I sincerely like to turn my own wrenches.  Not so much to save money, though that certainly is part of the appeal, but more for the pride of being at the end of a big project and being able to say "I did that."  I fully intend to go the DIY route, probably starting with Werks' conversion kit.  I don't know if I'll go LS2, LS3, LS7, LSA, LS9 (the last two highly doubtful, though ultimately what I'd love to do)...  depends on what the budget will allow when I get there.  Yes, I realize I won't be able to put all of that power to the ground from a dig.  But I also find driving a car with more power than available traction to be fun and challenging as well in its own way

[badbird]

I sincerely like to turn my own wrenches.  Not so much to save money, though that certainly is part of the appeal, but more for the pride of being at the end of a big project and being able to say "I did that."  I fully intend to go the DIY route, probably starting with Werks' conversion kit.  I don't know if I'll go LS2, LS3, LS7, LSA, LS9 (the last two highly doubtful, though ultimately what I'd love to do)...  depends on what the budget will allow when I get there.  Yes, I realize I won't be able to put all of that power to the ground from a dig.  But I also find driving a car with more power than available traction to be fun and challenging as well in its own way

You just described my thoughts to a "T"
When the solstice was announced I knew I wanted one. Then I read about the Mallet Conversions. DAMN I wanted one. Whats not to love about a car with a v-8 in it that weighs less that 3000 lbs. At the time I was still paying for a car and financially it was not yet an option. Then GM announced the GXP adding more room for debate. Do I buy the base...and spend 20 grand to have it converted...40,000..or buy the gxp (my cost out the door in Nov. 2007 was 33,000.) Obviously I went the gxp route. Of course I have since spent another 3 grand  on preformance upgrades and body mods...so as it sits im into the car a little over 36 grand.
At the vegas nationals in 08 I came face to face with a mallet solstice. David Russell from Colorado owned it. I began immediately to have second thoughts. I loved my new GXP, but a solstice with a v-8 was...well it was a solstice with a v-8. When he started it I thought my wife was going to throw her panties on the hood right there. I knew then that someday...I was going to build a v-8 solstice. Fast forward to now...many awesome road trips and friends later...the gxp just rolled 30,000 miles. About a month ago I purchased a 06 NA. My daughter loves it...and I dont have to worry about coming home to discover the gxp is not in the garage.
I'm a car guy. Older than some of you, not as old as some. After High School I went to U.T.I. in phoenix and got a associate degree in auto and diesel mechanics. I learned after working as a mechanic for a few years that turning wrenches for a living was'nt as fun as doing it for a hobby. So my tools came home with me and I started a different career. Im close to retiring now (16 months) then it will be time to start another career. Probably a part time one...but also time to spend more time out in the garage..tinkering....Will buying another solstice or sky and putting a v-8 in it be "cost effective" probably not, but it will give me great satisfaction. Most Hobbies arnt cost effective. THe deer and elk I shoot occasionally will always cost more per pound than if I bought beef at the store. But I enjoy it. I also enjoy the look on peoples faces when I tell them the solstice is a pontiac; because as most of you know, most people out there have no idea what they are. Even when you could hop on down and buy one off the lot most people at car shows would ask who made it. Everyone knows what a vette is. I like having a unique car. I now enjoy having two...and in the next couple years I will have three. And one will have a LS3 in it, that I put there.

[Gentleman Jack]

Nicely done.

[cooper1340s]

Enjoyable discussions. I have owned quite a few corvettes oiver the years and they are nice cars. Too big for a sports car, though, unlike the early model vettes. A new corvette would not fit well in my garage, since it is almost wider than the single car door that I have to use to get in the garage. (Wife uses half the double door and my boat uses the other half of the double door in our 3 car garage.) My Solstice fits through the small door fine, and now that I have Lambo doors, I can get out of it even with the top up and my wife hogging part of my space with her hit or miss parking style. Was not always the case before the Lambo doors. A big, new corvette would be living outdoors, because it would not fit my assigned garage space. (Not really interested in getting house with more than 3 car garage at this point in time.) My V8 Solstice solves all of these problems and still gives me a car that turns heads when I start the engine and it is a thrill to drive. Anyone who says a 500+ HP Solstice is not fast has never driven one. Is it the fastest car on the street? NO, but then neither is a new Corvette. It is fast enough to embarass 99% of cars I run into on the street, but that is nor why I converted it. It is just the most fun car to drive that I have owned in quite a while (and I have owned a lot of BAD cars) and it sound GREAT!! Each to his own.

[ChopTop]

I realized the OP question was never (or can't) be answered.  Some have talked about the V8 sound makes it worth it; other the performance makes it worth it, still others have talked about the enjoyment about DIY; but the reality is; It's "worth" it if makes or helps you smile about the car more.

BTW, mine would be a V8 w/blk Cobra or Corvette style sidepipes.

[miller11386]

Anyone who says a 500+ HP Solstice is not fast has never driven one. 

500+hp???? you must be thinking forced induction or a really optimistic dyno... not too many LS3's out there without some internal work to push past 500 on pump gas


If referring to an LS7 that power is realistic, but it would be a pretty tall challenge for a at home DIY guy to shoehorn that motor in a kappa. Not to mention all the custom fab work that would be needed to make it fit...

[Robles505]

500+hp???? you must be thinking forced induction or a really optimistic dyno... not too many LS3's out there without some internal work to push past 500 on pump gas

Yep, would need bolt ons and a good head/cam combo to break 500whp on an ls3 and even that would probably only put you in the 490's without lossing drivability from the setup

[Gentleman Jack]

500+hp???? you must be thinking forced induction or a really optimistic dyno... not too many LS3's out there without some internal work to push past 500 on pump gas


If referring to an LS7 that power is realistic, but it would be a pretty tall challenge for a at home DIY guy to shoehorn that motor in a kappa. Not to mention all the custom fab work that would be needed to make it fit...

Yeah, there is no way a person would be able to put an LS7 in a solstice.  And there is no way anyone could ever manage to fit a huge ass turbo under the hood of an old ass supra...

Miller - are you trolling?  Have you been hanging around with the "supra is best car ever, 2jz best engine ever... crowd too much?

At this point, your not faster than anybody.  And that includes my bone stock 2011 Kia Soul.  (which totally rocks by the way)

Oh, yeah and there is not many LS3 out there that produce 500hp.  Oops... here is one for sale... and it's under $9K... and its even Carbureted! 
Of course, you didn't mean this one.  You mean one that came out of your pick up truck, because obvously Cooper bought a used LS3 from a pick up and just dropped it in his car.
 
Home› Shop Engines› 33 Hot Rod Engine › LS3 Chevy Hot Rod Carbureted Engine 500HP
Return to Previous Page
 
Sale!






*Some photos shown with optional upgrades


LS3 Chevy Hot Rod Carbureted Engine 500HP


$8,699 $8,699




 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 New school technology. Easy installation and maintenance with our all new Hi-revving 6-bolt main aluminum engine block. Supplied with a 770 Holley carburetor. Great setup for a Street Rod / Hot Rod.
 
Click here to see the above engine live run!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------










Anyway,  back to the real people here.  Cooper - i'd love a ride in your Solstice any time your willing to have me. 

Is the OP even here to listen to the conversation ?  If so, have any of these comments helped you make your decision?  Would a ride in a V8 Kappa help make your decision?  Let's make that happen!

[2kwk4u]

1) There is no OP.  This thread was split off from another.  We're all arguing to convince nobody

2) Look no farther that Cooper's signature block to find out what he's referencing by "500 hp" (hint, he rounds up by 20, or he has done a couple of other minor mods)

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LS376480-HP-62L-CrateEngine-with-HotCam-19171224-19244549-19258768-P10724C943.aspx

19258768 Replaces19244549 old #19213229 & 19171224. LS376/480 HP 6.2L GMPP CrateEngine HotCam.
LS3 + Hot Cam = Loads of Fun
480 HP @ 5750 RPM, 475 lb-ft Torque @ 4500 RPM

The hot new small-block V-8 in the GM lineup is the hyper-aggressive LS3. It offers a high-reving 376-cid combination that represents generations of small-block V-8 development and engineering.
Not only is the LS3 an amazing engine in its stock configuration, but with those high-flowing rectangular port cylinder heads, the LS3 is loaded with potential. To tap into this, the engineers at GM Performance Parts offer you the LS376/480—an LS3 with an upgraded camshaft that ups power by a whopping 50 horsepower!
The LS376/480 comes with the same great features as the LS3 crate engine. The bottom end includes a 6-bolt aluminum block, nodular crank, high performance rods, and 10.7:1 pistons. The heads are high-flowing rectangular-port L92 units that have been upgraded with high-reving, hollow-stem valves. The same EFI intake manifold feeds the hungry engine, while 1.7:1 roller rockers work with the upgraded camshaft.
The GM Performance Parts engineers picked the LS Hot Cam (P/N 88958733) to take the LS3 to the next level. This cam specs out with .525" intake and exhaust valve lift. Duration (@ .050") is 219° intake and 228° exhaust, which allows for a dramatic increase in power. The engine will idle and cruise just like an LS3, but the power increase is there whenever you need it.
14" automatic flex plate included.

 

Part Number: 19213229
Engine Type: LS Series Gen IV Small-Block V-8
Displacement (cu in): 376 cu in (6.2L)
Bore x Stroke (in): 4.06 x 3.62 (103.25 x 92mm)
Block (P/N 12584727): Cast-aluminum with 6-bolt,
cross-bolted main caps
Crankshaft (P/N 12597569): Nodular iron
Connecting Rods (P/N 12617570): Powdered metal
Pistons (P/N 19168089): Hypereutectic aluminum
Camshaft Type (P/N 88958733): Hydraulic roller
Valve Lift (in): .525" intake / .525" exhaust
Camshaft Duration (@.050 in): 219° intake / 228° exhaust
Cylinder Heads (P/N 12615879): Aluminum L92 style port;
as cast with 68cc chambers
Valve Size (in): 2.165 int / 1.59 exhaust
Compression Ratio: 10.7:1
Rocker Arms (P/N 12569167 int): Investment-cast, roller trunnion
Rocker Arms (P/N 10214664 exh): Investment-cast, roller trunnion
Rocker Arm Ratio: 1.7:1
Recommended Fuel: 92 octane
Maximum Recommended rpm: 6600
Reluctor Wheel: 58X
Balanced: Internal
 




Here's a few other LS3 motors in the 500 hp league:
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LS-Series-Small-Block-Engines-C943.aspx

Keep on posting your opinions, though.  I'm having fun pushing back with facts

[Gentleman Jack]

2kwk4u,

backing opinions with facts since 1984. 

[DaveOC]

1) There is no OP.  This thread was split off from another.  We're all arguing to convince nobody

2) Look no farther that Cooper's signature block to find out what he's referencing by "500 hp" (hint, he rounds up by 20, or he has done a couple of other minor mods)

Cooper's car was assembled by Dave at DDMWorks.  Dave has done a bit of his tuning magic on that LS3 Hot Cam, so that is where at least another 20 hp appears.