Topic: expert input please :) gxp first upgrades

[vincent auburn]

After reading the solstice/kappa/sky forums for a few days it looks like a Trifecta tune is in order J


Below some questions;

I have a low mileage 2007 manual transmission solstice GXP and am looking to do a few mods. Am in the Sacramento, CA area and where I live I’m at an elevation of 1200 feet. Gas over here is mostly 91 oct. 

I’m not going to race the car; just like to do a mild tune at about 300hp on the flywheel which from what I understand is not going to be too hard/rough on the engine.

From what I understand you offer a ‘canned’ tune for $200 plus a $200 deposit for the cable. Now,  I’m planning on keeping everything stock except perhaps a Werks intercooler, and a high flow cat ( plus 3 bar Map sensors if needed/beneficial.)

To determine if I would need just the canned tune or a custom/full tune, first a couple of questions to help decide which way to go..

Am Thinking of getting the Werks street version intercooler first (Dejon = out of business and not available any more, right?) 

Would this aftermarket IC negatively impact the performance of the canned tune? Am thinking about getting this to have a better flow,cooler air in the manifold and have an IC that stands up to the increased boost. (Seen quite a few postings online of blown up stock IC’s… )

Will the Werks Intercooler piping be beneficial?

Are ‘Cooler’ spark plugs needed/ recommended? Will the tune likely make temperatures go up or down, under normal driving conditions? 

Are the 3 bar MAP sensors needed or beneficial in combination with your tune? Stock 2007 MAP sensors go up to 23 psi, at least that’s what I’ve read a few times; will the canned tune go over this / what are the PSI numbers likely going to be for the canned tune?

Since I’m looking for a ‘mild’ tune and keeping the engine temperatures under control I was thinking about max 22 PSI on the turbo; is this realistic?


cheers, Vincent

[rotarypiston]

After reading the solstice/kappa/sky forums for a few days it looks like a Trifecta tune is in order J


Below some questions;

I have a low mileage 2007 manual transmission solstice GXP and am looking to do a few mods. Am in the Sacramento, CA area and where I live I’m at an elevation of 1200 feet. Gas over here is mostly 91 oct. 

I’m not going to race the car; just like to do a mild tune at about 300hp on the flywheel which from what I understand is not going to be too hard/rough on the engine.

From what I understand you offer a ‘canned’ tune for $200 plus a $200 deposit for the cable. Now,  I’m planning on keeping everything stock except perhaps a Werks intercooler, and a high flow cat ( plus 3 bar Map sensors if needed/beneficial.)

To determine if I would need just the canned tune or a custom/full tune, first a couple of questions to help decide which way to go..

Am Thinking of getting the Werks street version intercooler first (Dejon = out of business and not available any more, right?) 

Would this aftermarket IC negatively impact the performance of the canned tune? Am thinking about getting this to have a better flow,cooler air in the manifold and have an IC that stands up to the increased boost. (Seen quite a few postings online of blown up stock IC’s… )

Will the Werks Intercooler piping be beneficial?

Are ‘Cooler’ spark plugs needed/ recommended? Will the tune likely make temperatures go up or down, under normal driving conditions? 

Are the 3 bar MAP sensors needed or beneficial in combination with your tune? Stock 2007 MAP sensors go up to 23 psi, at least that’s what I’ve read a few times; will the canned tune go over this / what are the PSI numbers likely going to be for the canned tune?

Since I’m looking for a ‘mild’ tune and keeping the engine temperatures under control I was thinking about max 22 PSI on the turbo; is this realistic?


cheers, Vincent

I would check out the GM Stage 1 kit.  Crate engine depot has the kit you can buy at a great price and then you just take it to the dealer for them to install.  No worries, no hassle, and it is essentially going to work in every condition and elevation.  And if you still had a warranty, it would retain that as well. 

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/Cobalt-Solstice-HHR-Stage-Kit-19212670HK-P10773.aspx 

I did this to my Solstice and it was my first performance modification.  Could not be happier. 

And just so you know, intercooler and charge piping, while they are good additions, without a tune you will not see nearly as much of a difference than if you had a tune.  They will do a little bit, but again, nothing compared to what you would see with a tune. 

Catback exhaust systems do not do much either as well.  The only exhaust piece that would really boost power output is the downpipe.  If you change that piece you are looking between 7-12 hp jump.  (pending if you keep your catalytic converter or not)

Hope this helps

[vincent auburn]

hi Rotarypiston, thanks for your input.

So from crateengine you buy the sensors plus connectors, and with that you go to the dealer, where they install the sensors, upload the tune to the ECU and charge you for their time?

Am asking this since the sensors themselves can be had for way less then what crateengine is charging, installation is simple (can do that myself) and a Trifecta budget tune is going to be cheaper as well.

I'm aware of the 'learn down' situation when you have the stock factory settings, but i wonder if i go with the stage 1 tune there will also be a 'learn up' effect if i were to add the intercooler / do some mods after the stage 1 tune?

[LatinVenom]

Sorry, but your car is out of warranty and the GMPP tune will be less effective than the Trifecta can tune. You are paying just $200.00 vs the higher price GMPP.
By the way you do not need a new IC or the 3 bar sensors either.
The GM engineers did a great job with this motor and the charge pipes and IC will work very well until you decide to upgrade the turbo.
Save your money and get the can Trifecta tune.
If you really want to spend some more then put the money on the suspension, with items such as the ProBeam/BAcBone/Venom Brace/ZOK full suspension and better tires.
The above with the Trifecta tune will put a big smile in your face every time you go for a fun drive.

[cdflint]

Having originally purchasing the canned tune from Trifecta, most of everything you are adding will not effect the overall experiance of the tune. Its a great tune and a great bang for your buck.

Start with the Tune and see how it feels for  you. HF cat, IC, IC pipes, exhaust all make a difference but, for me, not see the crazy difference between stock and tune. Until you are looking to upgrade the turbo and break into the engine, trifecta's tune is a solid simple upgade thats worth paying for. No need to upgrade the other parts until its needed or... you just NEED to.

[rotarypiston]

hi Rotarypiston, thanks for your input.

So from crateengine you buy the sensors plus connectors, and with that you go to the dealer, where they install the sensors, upload the tune to the ECU and charge you for their time?

Am asking this since the sensors themselves can be had for way less then what crateengine is charging, installation is simple (can do that myself) and a Trifecta budget tune is going to be cheaper as well.

I'm aware of the 'learn down' situation when you have the stock factory settings, but i wonder if i go with the stage 1 tune there will also be a 'learn up' effect if i were to add the intercooler / do some mods after the stage 1 tune?

That is the idea. 

The trifecta tune makes more power in some areas, and less in others.  Now I know Trifecta pretty well and actually have my cobalt tuned by them.  Not to mention my cousins SS turbo cobalt was vs my brothers SS turbo cobalt w/ gm stage 1. 

Here is the thing, if you drive your car at 10/10ths, trifectas shows some flaws compared to the GM stage 1.  Now that being said, if you can use HP Tuners and find someone who knows how to tune well with that, forget Trifecta and GM stage 1 and go with that.  The sensors are 50 dollars each to buy new from CED and you just put the tune on yourself with HP Tuners. 

I bring up GM Stage 1 because I really did not know anyone who could tune the LNF as good as I wanted and the fact of the matter is that I only have the tune and no other supporting modifications to warrant me actually needing that tune.  Fact is that if you are going to tune the motor, I like to make sure it can handle all of what I want to throw at it.  Some have different views, these are just mine.  If I had the full exhaust, IC, Charge Pipe, ported head, different turbo, etc, then an aftermarket tune like HP Tuners would be something to seriously consider. 

For the record, GM stage 1 w/catless downpipe = Trifecta tune w/stock downpipe.  That is about as easy as I can make that comparison based on what my cousins cobalt ss turbo and my brothers cobalt ss turbo have proven. 

[vincent auburn]

Thanks all for the input so far. Leaning towards trifecta at the moment, since i don't know anyone that knows both the HP tuners system  and the engine inside out, and i don't want to have some monkey blow up something by goofing with the settings, creating an unsafe tune..

I guess i'll have to pick up the phone at some point to ask the Trifecta's final opinion if it comes to which tune to select; the custom tune or the canned version. Custom tune sounds good, i can then start with that and if i decide to start adding items i can send them the log for finetuning.

I read that the canned tune is best for stock or 'close to stock' cars, but i'm not sure if an aftermarket IC + high flow cat still fall in their 'close to stock' category

Anybody running the budget/canned tune with these mods (IC + high flow cat) ?

Are you guys getting more then 23 PSI boost with the canned tune? (23+ PSI blew up a few stock IC's here and there..)

I'm also trying to understand what happens with a larger intercooler in relation to the workload on the turbo. With an upgraded IC, does the turbo have to work less hard / stay cooler to get to the same PSI as programmed into the tune ?

[rotarypiston]

Thanks all for the input so far. Leaning towards trifecta at the moment, since i don't know anyone that knows both the HP tuners system  and the engine inside out, and i don't want to have some monkey blow up something by goofing with the settings, creating an unsafe tune..

I guess i'll have to pick up the phone at some point to ask the Trifecta's final opinion if it comes to which tune to select; the custom tune or the canned version. Custom tune sounds good, i can then start with that and if i decide to start adding items i can send them the log for finetuning.

I read that the canned tune is best for stock or 'close to stock' cars, but i'm not sure if an aftermarket IC + high flow cat still fall in their 'close to stock' category

Anybody running the budget/canned tune with these mods (IC + high flow cat) ?

Are you guys getting more then 23 PSI boost with the canned tune? (23+ PSI blew up a few stock IC's here and there..)

I'm also trying to understand what happens with a larger intercooler in relation to the workload on the turbo. With an upgraded IC, does the turbo have to work less hard / stay cooler to get to the same PSI as programmed into the tune ?

Do NOT get the canned tune.  IF your really going to go trifecta, it is absolutely best that you get the custom one from him.  Even if you have no other modifications other than the tune, the custom tune is the one to get.  That requires data logging your car, which is no big deal for you honestly, but it is the best way to get the most out of the car and make sure it is running correctly.

With the intercooler, the stock one is just small and does not handle constant boost usage very well.  Obviously it is not horrible, but it can be much improved on.  When you use your car at 10/10ths for extended periods of time, the ECU will pull power because the intake temps in the charged air will be much higher and in order to prevent detonation in the motor, pulling power is what the ECU will do.  Better intercooler means that the intake temps in the charged air will not be hot enough to pull power from the ECU when you are exercising your kappa 

[vincent auburn]

This is the input i got from one of the tuners that offers the Trifecta. Am going for a second opinion of another tuner and will let all the comments/advice made on this forum sink in, and then make a decision..

Hi Vincent,

It sounds like our Budget Tune is probably a perfect fit for you.

Upgrading your intercooler will not require any modification to the tune, nor will the high flow cat (except to disable codes, which you can do with our EZ Flash software and cable).

We strictly recommend the stock spark plugs for all LNFs that we tune.

3 bar MAP sensors aka 'GMS1 Sensors' are absolutely unecessary except when boosting over 26psi, which the stock turbo is usually not even capable of. They are also lower resolution than the stock 2.5 bar sensors, so I'd advise you stick to the stockers.

The Budget Tune will boost anywhere between 21--23psi depending on air density (climate/elevation), but will always try to make the same amount of power.
 

[vincent auburn]

Ok, an update.

Had 2 tuners give me 2 different answers regarding the need of a custom tune (or not) when also mounting a high flow cat and aftermarket IC.

One tuner, WOT, which you're sent to when you try to get to speak to Trifecta directly, states that with the high flow cat and upgraded IC you do not need to go for a custom tune, the canned tune would be 'a perfect fit' (see above posting). Trifecta so far has not replied to any emails, been about 2 weeks now and sent about 4.

From the second tuner, Bad News Racing i got this:

If you're looking to add parts I would go with the full tune as the budget tune is not eligible for retunes or adjustments and with those parts you may need adjusting. Budget tunes are best for people who just want a tune and maybe an intake but if you are looking to add mods I would definitely go with the full tune.

So, still undecided what to do here, canned or custom...

The high flow cat arrived today and i'm now trying to figure out what to install first, the high flow cat or tune. I know that the cat in itself won't make a difference because of the learn down ECU software, but i'm not sure what would be the best thing to do; cat first then tune or tune first then cat.

Anybody any input regarding which way to go??
 

[LatinVenom]

Please read my answer on the other forum, please.

[Ames Performance Tuning]

Let's add more info from another Trifecta dealer -lol. 

You can go with the Canned tune and then upgrade to the full datalogged tune when you get additional upgrades.  Steven at WOT is Vince's storefront and emails sent to the old Trifecta email most likely would be referred back to Steven.  From my experience the Budget tune would be best bang for the buck but I personally like to have the car logged to double-check everything even though it is rarely necessary unless there is a mechanical issue on the car.

[1LILNDN]

Now if you are a paid kappa forum member you can get the Westes Tune at a discount and as you add more mods they will do your up grades at no other cost to you.

[Sol Asylum]

Bobbwhy do you ever have a feeling of deja vu?

[1LILNDN]

Daaam___n what did I do Now ? I must have thought of it before  or at the same time as you, but I posted afor you .    mAo        


ALSO when I posted it gave me that time out try posting again so I did . Thats called double-up

[Gadget]

Hey Vincent, I agree with the above from the veterans here.
I am running a 2008 GXP with the trifecta tune.
I added a hi-flow cat, solo exhaust, Deion IC pipes and a Hahn IC all after the tune.
Tune was hands down the best bang for the buck of all. (All right, the solo sounds sweet and added a little Umph)

The tune has been great before and after the rest of the mods.

As I don't have a guy to go to for tuning, I did the Trifecta, with the stock mafs and it has been a love affair ever since.

As was said before, backbone, probeam, and LV FCB will also make a world of difference and are a fantastic value as well.
Good luck to you