Topic: ZZP LNF Cam Testing

[SKY888]

Some words from ZZP guys from Cobalt forum:

I installed a set of prototype ZZP cams in my motor a couple days ago. Yesterday and today, I got a chance to dyno test them. Here are the results so far-

On gas with stock cams, peak whp was 332.
On gas with ZZP cams, peak whp was 362.
However, boost was a little higher on the cammed test. I thought we had a maxed turbo test on gas with stock cams, but there weren't any tests with the same test procedure. Maxing the turbo on the stock cams should have put it somewhere around 336-340 whp.


How much boost was added compared to the stock cam set-up?  2, 3, 4, 5 more psi?

depending on the boost level, and application, adding 5psi can easily get 30whp...........without using a new aftermarket cams......


I am very interested in having a new set of cams!   I'm hoping that these ZZP cams will really materialize.   It will be nice to have LNF aftermarket cams........

[kennysabarese]

I don't think he meant he turned up the boost when he put in the cams.

I was thinking the boost would go down by adding cams that keep the valves open longer.

[SKY888]

I don't think he meant he turned up the boost when he put in the cams.

you might be right kenny!


kelu.....update us on this!  hahaha!

I need more info

very interested.........

[Kelu]

Just look at the dynos sheets, the plotted the boost also.  

[SKY888]

kelu, I don't think that there is a dyno sheet for the stock cams w/ boost though....

[old goat]

The most you can get from the stock setup with the stock turbo is 335 according to GM Racing, that was on race gas. The torque was up over 400 but max rwhp was 335, that was with the guy who wrote the GMPP tune doing the tuning, it was not at all streetable but would melt the back tires at will.

[snaponbob]

The most you can get from the stock setup with the stock turbo is 335 according to GM Racing, that was on race gas. The torque was up over 400 but max rwhp was 335, that was with the guy who wrote the GMPP tune doing the tuning, it was not at all streetable but would melt the back tires at will.

I wish I could get that tune if those are power numbers at the wheels.

[Arabas]

The most you can get from the stock setup with the stock turbo is 335 according to GM Racing, that was on race gas. The torque was up over 400 but max rwhp was 335, that was with the guy who wrote the GMPP tune doing the tuning, it was not at all streetable but would melt the back tires at will.

max rwd 335? wow!
that's a lot of ponnies!
seen a race between two kappas from rolling 2nd gear, identical bolt-ons, same tune and the only difference was that one was using normal gas, the other guy was using normal gas with octane additive (20ml in a full tank).
the result was a car distance between them

[kennysabarese]

The most you can get from the stock setup with the stock turbo is 335 according to GM Racing, that was on race gas. The torque was up over 400 but max rwhp was 335, that was with the guy who wrote the GMPP tune doing the tuning, it was not at all streetable but would melt the back tires at will.

Do you know if they modified the cams to achieve that? (since this thread is about cams)

[snaponbob]

The most you can get from the stock setup with the stock turbo is 335 according to GM Racing, that was on race gas. The torque was up over 400 but max rwhp was 335, that was with the guy who wrote the GMPP tune doing the tuning, it was not at all streetable but would melt the back tires at will.

Can you verify that? Based on what I have learned from a T2 Sol racer (in St Louis) there was nowhere near that sort of power AT THE WHEELS.

[old goat]

It was on the Gardella website for a long time, back when Pontiac still sponsored Drifters. The Gardella Solstice ran with everything stock except the intake and intercooler (it was a Hahn). They ran a LSJ after they lost Pontiac, one of Rhys Millen's old motors around 500hp, they finished last season with a V-8. I was told the same numbers by Ryan Tuerck in the pits in Atlanta, and by Scotty the mechanic as well. Then in Englishtown I got a chance to talk with the tuner Steve and he told me the same numbers, he tuned the Gardella Solstice, the Red Bull Solstice and the Bridgestone GTO.

Here is what was on the website, found it in one of my old posts

2007 Pontiac Solstice GXP
Production 2.0L ECOtec LNF turbocharged with race-only calibration
330 hp @ 4500-6000rpm
425 lb-ft @ 3600rpm
7000rpm rev limit
Straight-thru 3” exhaust, with catalytic converter delete
Gardella Racing induction system

[Kelu]

that sounds bhp to me, not whp

[old goat]

that sounds bhp to me, not whp

It was a race car, it was rwhp, this was done by GM racing to prove the potential of the stock GXP. I do know the difference, this was by no means street legal. It's the same car that has been it the top 5 in the drift championships since it was built, it was retired this year after taking third, it was second last year. Here is the Orgininal article from GM Tunersource http://gmtunersource.com/gmracing/drifting/ryantuerck
The write up of the win in Atlanta, they actually refference the Solsticeforum for pictures, the pictures were mine.
http://gmtunersource.com/blog/drifting/item/863-gm-nearly-sweeps-formula-drift-atlanta
here is a picture or two





The fat guy in the picture is me, talking with Ryan Tuerck, Atlanta 2008 Rhys Millen took first in the Red Bull Solstice and Ryan took third, nice day for the Solstice's and Pontiac as the GTO took forth.



Beating Tanner Foust

[LatinVenom]

Old Goat is correct.
The numbers were at the wheels.
I saw them in the original version at the Palm Beach Raceway.
At that time the Hahn IC was not there.
Even with this setup the car was a speed demon.

[snaponbob]

The most you can get from the stock setup with the stock turbo is 335 according to GM Racing, that was on race gas. The torque was up over 400 but max rwhp was 335, that was with the guy who wrote the GMPP tune doing the tuning, it was not at all streetable but would melt the back tires at will.

There is all sorts of "race gas". I would love to meet anybody that has done this and see the printout as well as know what fuel was used. Maybe C16 or better, but not 100 or 110 gasoline. Whenever I here claims of "stock" this and that, and then see a pressure gauge on the fuel system, I just can't help but be skeptical. I am NOT questioning what people have been told, but so far a lot of people have NOT broken the 300whp barrier with a truly stock engine and turbo, even on 110. It just sounds odd. That said, hopefully ZZP will be true to their word and contact me after they are done playing with a customer's Redline. Hopefully, they will have something interesting to share.

[old goat]

Remember this was built by GM Racing as a test to see what could be gotten out of the motor, the gas was 110. The data was published by GM Racing, the team that built it is the same team that built the worlds fastest 4-cyl, it was a GM racing lsj motor and put down over 1400 horsepower. The Solstice was competing against cars with way over 700hp and winning, the same tuner tuned the GTO with an LS-7 motor in it, it was rated at 760hp and the Solstice beat it on the day those pictures were taken. Stock turbo and intake are evident in the pictures. GM was very controlling on these cars, they tried to put an MSD ignition in the Red Bull Solstice and GM made them pull it. Carmen Smith was the Program Manager for GM ecotec racing, she was at every event with the tuner Steve Martin (no not the wild and crazy guy), they did there tuning real world on the track. I agree with Bob lots of people claim this and that, even DDM claims to have gotten over the 300 rwhp mark. This was a Pontiac sponsored racing team, they had a few more resources than most.

[Dave@DDMworks]

Yes, here is one of the latest over 300whp. Also just a note on the dyno used, this was run on the same dyno that DeepblueGXP ran on that made 285whp for comparison. Also we are using SAE correction and smoothing of 5, STD correction takes it to 311whp/380tq for reference. All of our runs were made with 92 octane.



As for making 330whp/430tq, I think it could be possible with stock turbo and 110 gas, as being able to add some more timing would give a big torque bump for sure.

As for the cam talk, we have played with the 2.4L stuff for awhile now and there are not huge gains over there with the cams, and would be very interested in the conditions/car they tested these on. Also we have not been able to source any cam blanks for the 2.4L/2.0L engines, as they are not normal cams because of the integrated oil passages for the VVT actuators, so we have been limited to regrinds on stock cams, which sounds like what they are doing here also.

Hope that helps,
Dave