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Author Topic: LIPSTICK'S 800hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!  (Read 100834 times)

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Offline SKY888

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LIPSTICK'S 800hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« on: August 03, 2010, 11:49:11 PM »
COMPOUND TURBO SET-UP:
Garrett GT4294R (1.0 turbine A/R) and Garrett Gt2871R (.63 Tial turbine housing A/R).  Both turbos have v-band – and CRYO-TREATED!!!
BTF tubular manifold (321 stainless steel)
BTF 4” downpipe  (321 stainless steel)
BTF recirculating dump tube (321 stainless steel)
BTF charge pipes
Turbosmart Power-Gate60 – controls GT2871R turbo
Turbosmart Comp-Gate40 – controls GT4294R turbo
Turbosmart Race Port BOV
Turbosmart Eboost2 60psi electronic boost controller

321 Stainless Steel tubular manifold, downpipe(Swaintech coated and DEI titanium wrapped)
Werks RACE Intercooler – 15” x 3” x 24”
AEM water-methanol kit
DEI Cry02 intercooler spray kit


BATES ENGINEERING RACE BLOCK:
Bates Sleeved block
Bored ,honed, Aligned hone
Decked
Bates Main Studs 
Bates Balance shafts
Bates main bearings
Bates chain tensioner spring
Bates billet oil pump gear
LNF camshaft
K1 rods and Wiseco pistons installed

SMG HAND PORTED RACE HEAD:
Supertech 35.5 mm oversized valves
Supertech 78 lb springs (cryo treated)
Supertech retainers/keepers
Bates Head Studs 
Bates Rocker Arms (cryo treated)
Aggressive Headwork
Ported and Polished Throttle body and Manifold



FUEL Set-Up:
WERKS custom race manifold w/ port injection
RMR secondary fuel rail
RC engineering 42lb injectors
Split Sec extra injector controller
Nitrous Express SAFE fuel System (extra fuel cell w/ fuel pump and adjustable fpr)
Deatsch Werks 300lph fuel pump
ZZP stage 1 cams w/ big fuel lobe



LIBERTY GEARS/NITROFREEZE Transmission and Drivetrain:
Spec Stage 3+ clutch w/ 11lb Flywheel (Cryo-Treated)
Polished hub and sliders, gear/synchro set (shot peened and cryo-treated)
Pinion, driveshaft, axles, and rear differential (cryo-treated)
Driveshaft Shop 600hp Axles
18"x10" Forgestar Wheels w/ Nitto NTO5 295/35/18



First, I wanted to thank Dave of WERKS for sponsoring me with the Race Intercooler   

I also wanted to give thanks to the following for some feedbacks and insights about the compound turbo set-up planning:
- Dave of DDM
- Shabby
- Marc of Boost logic – you can youtube him (marc compound turbo).  He has a very successful compound turbo set-up.
- Kevin Jewer – owner of 1991 Eagle Talon compound turbo set-up (T3 50 trim and T6 s475 w/ 1.06 AR) – 8.97sec @ 156mph   Thank you for all the step-by-step answers that you provided me!!!   You have been my on-line mentor!!!


Finally, I wanted to give thanks to my my main sponsors/tuner:
[COLOR="Red"]Baldturbofreak aka BTF[/COLOR]   BTF racing will sponsor me for this build.  Rick helped me out choose the turbos for my compound turbo set-up, and provided me with the turbos.   He will custom fabricate me a tubular manifold and the compound turbo set-up.

[COLOR="Blue"]Fred of SMG Motoring [/COLOR]  Fred is my main tuner.  He will install the compound turbo set-up, and will relocate TONS of stuff to fit this compound turbo set-up.

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Ryan of Nitrofreeze[/COLOR] for full-sponsorship of the cryogenic treatment of all my parts!!!

[COLOR="Purple"]Vince of burnsstainless.com[/COLOR]  for sponsorship of all the stainless steel parts for this build.



Late last year, since SMG had already successfully twincharged the cobalts, by having a rear mount a turbo…………I asked myself, how about adding another turbo on my set-up and mount it at the rear?

So Fred and I started talking about mounting a k04 turbo at the rear, and do a sequential turbo set-up.  The k04 turbo will spool fast, and will help have a more responsive car.   But after talking to Dave of DDM, Shabby, and Marc, the plan of having a sequential set-up will not work-out as planned and will be very complicated to run smoothly.   So I scratched that the plan right away.



So here’s the compound turbo set-up flow:

Exhaust manifold >  small turbo (turbine) and powers the engine >  excess exhaust gases goes to dp/wastegate > >  big turbo (turbine) >  big turbo compressor > compressed/cold air goes to small turbo (compressor inlet) > small turbo (compressor outlet) > Intercooler > engine


We are hoping to boost this set-up at around 43-45psi, since the RACE Block can handle it without even sweating.   Race block can easily handle 1000 whp.    If things go smoothly, the set-up will flow at least 80 lb/min …………and will produce at least 600 whp.   It will be an ultimate street machine that will be competitive in auto crossing, drag racing, and road racing.   

Will spool from 2800 rpm all the way to 8000 rpm 


GT2871R will be boosting 28psi and GT4094R will be boosting at around 15psi.

Total boost pressure will be 43-45psi or more



BTF will start working on the project mid of November 2011.  After he finish the manifold,  it wil be sent all the hot sides to SWAINTECH for ceramic coating

SMG will be working on the head, transmission, all necessary relocations, and everything will start mid mid 2011 as well.

BTF and SMG collaboration! :)

We are hoping to finish the whole project and tune the beast before the end of Summer 2012

There will be lots of trial and error during the build, and same goes to the tuning.   But that’s normal to every build, especially on a very crazy build like this.   But whatever it takes, we will complete this project!!!


[SIZE="5"]LIPSTICK will strive to be the first LNF engine in the 700hp range that will be a daily driver. FIRST EVER compound turbo LNF set-up!!!! [/SIZE]



To learn more about compound turbo, here’s my buddy Marc:

YouTube - Marc's 2JZ Turbo Compound Setup

YouTube - Marc's Track run with Commentary

[COLOR="Blue"]To follow this compound turbo build, you can go to this link: Antonio Sky | Facebook

Or search “Antonio Sky” on facebook[/COLOR]
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 05:04:37 PM by SKY888 »
COMPOUND TURBOS (GT2860r & GT4294r) goal 800hp


CAR SPECS and PHOTOS:
https://www.facebook.com/SKY888CompoundTurbo

SPONSORS:
aeroforce.com, nitrofreeze.com, forgestar.com, splitsec.com, turbosmartonline.com, k1technologies.com, supertechperformance.com, specclutch.com, rceng.com, statusracing.com, tceperformanceproducts.com, burnsstainless.com, performanceautowerks.com, ddmworks.com, turbowerx.com, BTF

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2010, 12:41:21 AM »
Good luck with your project.  Please keep us informed.

Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2010, 01:21:03 AM »
wow.  600 ponies?  How do you get it down?  Are you going to narrow the rear end for wider rubber?

GJ
May the Schwartz be wit you

Offline Kelu

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2010, 03:17:13 AM »
Welcome Antonio,
I do have some questions for the moment:
So Fred and I started talking about mounting a k04 turbo at the rear, and do a sequential turbo set-up.  The k04 turbo will spool fast, and will help have a more responsive car.   But after talking to Dave of DDM, Shabby, and Marc, the plan of having a sequential set-up will not work-out as planned and will be very complicated to run smoothly.   So I scratched that the plan right away.
1) What were the reasons which made you to drop the compound setup using k04 which would be cheapest.

2) What happens to the tune? You still hope HPT will release at least the fuel tables or go on a different route?

GJ: as far as I know compound turbo will not have a huge threshold in torque, his torque will have the GT28 threshold down low which is manageable and than will be flat or will climb a little which will help a lot with traction.
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

Offline SKY888

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2010, 04:25:49 AM »
I currently have a staggered OZ set-up.  8" front, and 9" rear wheels.....with nitto NT05 tires.   They are very grippy on my current 400whp set up.    So I'm hoping that they will be able to handle the 600whp on a daily basis.  But if not, I might be ending up getting 10 or 11" wheels at the back......
COMPOUND TURBOS (GT2860r & GT4294r) goal 800hp


CAR SPECS and PHOTOS:
https://www.facebook.com/SKY888CompoundTurbo

SPONSORS:
aeroforce.com, nitrofreeze.com, forgestar.com, splitsec.com, turbosmartonline.com, k1technologies.com, supertechperformance.com, specclutch.com, rceng.com, statusracing.com, tceperformanceproducts.com, burnsstainless.com, performanceautowerks.com, ddmworks.com, turbowerx.com, BTF

Offline SKY888

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2010, 04:32:12 AM »
Welcome Antonio,
I do have some questions for the moment:1) What were the reasons which made you to drop the compound setup using k04 which would be cheapest.

2) What happens to the tune? You still hope HPT will release at least the fuel tables or go on a different route?

GJ: as far as I know compound turbo will not have a huge threshold in torque, his torque will have the GT28 threshold down low which is manageable and than will be flat or will climb a little which will help a lot with traction.

kelu, I dropped the plan of using the k04 turbo set-up, since after talking to my tuners (BTF and SMG)......and Marc from boostlogic.....all of them have the same response. That the k04 turbo might be too small for the 600hp goal..........and might cause the "choke" up top.   That's the reason why we went with a bigger gt2871r.

HPT will still be used and customized for the set-up.   HPT-trifecta might be an option if HPT doesn't release the fuel pressure table soon enough.    BTF secondary fuel rail, and microsquirt might also help with my set-up.    My tuner SMG knows a vendor that is developing a manual fuel pressure controller as well.

I currently also have the walbro 255lph fuel pump upgrade

and yes, with a compound turbo set-up.....the power is VERY linear....compared to a non-compound set-up.   So traction will be more maneagable ....im hoping :)
COMPOUND TURBOS (GT2860r & GT4294r) goal 800hp


CAR SPECS and PHOTOS:
https://www.facebook.com/SKY888CompoundTurbo

SPONSORS:
aeroforce.com, nitrofreeze.com, forgestar.com, splitsec.com, turbosmartonline.com, k1technologies.com, supertechperformance.com, specclutch.com, rceng.com, statusracing.com, tceperformanceproducts.com, burnsstainless.com, performanceautowerks.com, ddmworks.com, turbowerx.com, BTF

Offline Kelu

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2010, 04:53:50 AM »
Two more:
kelu, I dropped the plan of using the k04 turbo set-up, since after talking to my tuners (BTF and SMG)......and Marc from boostlogic.....all of them have the same response. That the k04 turbo might be too small for the 600hp goal..........and might cause the "choke" up top.   That's the reason why we went with a bigger gt2871r.
Other than limiting the max power there I any other issues using it in a compound setup?
What would be the maximum power out of a compound setup with k04 as small turbo?

Thank you for all the info ;)
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

Offline SKY888

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2010, 05:02:40 AM »
Two more:Other than limiting the max power there I any other issues using it in a compound setup?
What would be the maximum power out of a compound setup with k04 as small turbo?

Thank you for all the info ;)

as you know, compound turbo set-up is still VERY new in a gas engine set-up.   Only a few people have run their cars with compound turbos (unlike diesel engines).  So there is still alot of unknowns.

k04 might NOT be a "choke point" for a 600hp build..........but who knows?   But if I'm going for this set-up, I wana make sure that the stuff I'll be using will not cause any problems or issues......that's why I went ahead and chose the gt2871r.

You can definitely use a k04 turbo with a GT35 and hope for a 500hp set-up......   It will be a quicker spooling set-up compared to what my set-up .....

COMPOUND TURBOS (GT2860r & GT4294r) goal 800hp


CAR SPECS and PHOTOS:
https://www.facebook.com/SKY888CompoundTurbo

SPONSORS:
aeroforce.com, nitrofreeze.com, forgestar.com, splitsec.com, turbosmartonline.com, k1technologies.com, supertechperformance.com, specclutch.com, rceng.com, statusracing.com, tceperformanceproducts.com, burnsstainless.com, performanceautowerks.com, ddmworks.com, turbowerx.com, BTF

Offline Kelu

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2010, 05:17:15 AM »
Hmmm, that sounds interesting. Now how we convince BTF to build a compound setup using k04?  :D

I think will be a nice compromise between big power and low torque to a decent price.  :huh:
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

Offline SKY888

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2010, 05:21:56 AM »
Hmmm, that sounds interesting. Now how we convince BTF to build a compound setup using k04?  :D

I think will be a nice compromise between big power and low torque to a decent price.  :huh:

this compound turbo set-up will be my third kit from Rick.   That's why he sponsored me for this build.  Plus of course he got excited when I asked him to build this set-up.

there will be lots of relocation of stuff underneath the hood, I am not sure if you or others will be willing to do that.

Plus I am not sure if he is willing to create a compound kit since everybody will have their own turbos that they wana try. Therefore it will be a different size of pipes, mounting, and etc.       I believe he can do this for an individual basis (customized)......but don't expect it to be cheap :)

And he currently has 13 other projects......very busy guy

COMPOUND TURBOS (GT2860r & GT4294r) goal 800hp


CAR SPECS and PHOTOS:
https://www.facebook.com/SKY888CompoundTurbo

SPONSORS:
aeroforce.com, nitrofreeze.com, forgestar.com, splitsec.com, turbosmartonline.com, k1technologies.com, supertechperformance.com, specclutch.com, rceng.com, statusracing.com, tceperformanceproducts.com, burnsstainless.com, performanceautowerks.com, ddmworks.com, turbowerx.com, BTF

Offline Uranium-238

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2010, 07:44:54 AM »
How much weight has all this added? Really thinking that V8 is the only way to go for serious power after reading all that...
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Offline Rogue

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2010, 08:02:08 AM »
A 3" downpipe sounds awfully small for the power you're looking for. A single 3" has an area of 7.06 sq in. The dual 2.5" exhaust on my GTO (approx 435HP) calculates out at 9.8 sq in. Or, have I oversimplifed?
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Offline SKY888

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2010, 08:21:19 AM »
How much weight has all this added? Really thinking that V8 is the only way to go for serious power after reading all that...

going V8 is soooo easy to do.  Lots of kappa owners already did it.  I don't want to be one of them.......since I like to be different....and still be able to keep up with them in tq or power wise....and maybe even more (which I know I will)

only thing added to my set-up is the weight of the gt40 turbo and a couple of charge pipes.....which is WAAAAAY less compared to the heavy v8.....
COMPOUND TURBOS (GT2860r & GT4294r) goal 800hp


CAR SPECS and PHOTOS:
https://www.facebook.com/SKY888CompoundTurbo

SPONSORS:
aeroforce.com, nitrofreeze.com, forgestar.com, splitsec.com, turbosmartonline.com, k1technologies.com, supertechperformance.com, specclutch.com, rceng.com, statusracing.com, tceperformanceproducts.com, burnsstainless.com, performanceautowerks.com, ddmworks.com, turbowerx.com, BTF

Offline Uranium-238

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2010, 08:23:59 AM »
I'm not not slamming you for going the route you did, just trying to determine what's the most economical.

And FWIW, an LS1 only adds about 70 lbs over the stock weight of an LNF.
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Offline SKY888

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2010, 08:24:50 AM »
A 3" downpipe sounds awfully small for the power you're looking for. A single 3" has an area of 7.06 sq in. The dual 2.5" exhaust on my GTO (approx 435HP) calculates out at 9.8 sq in. Or, have I oversimplifed?

my car will be a daily driven car, and will not be an all-race car that has 4" or bigger downpipe.     3" downpipe is way more than enough for my build........  

I already used a 3" downpipe on my Evo 3 .....back in the days..... that produced 650 on an AWD dyno....
COMPOUND TURBOS (GT2860r & GT4294r) goal 800hp


CAR SPECS and PHOTOS:
https://www.facebook.com/SKY888CompoundTurbo

SPONSORS:
aeroforce.com, nitrofreeze.com, forgestar.com, splitsec.com, turbosmartonline.com, k1technologies.com, supertechperformance.com, specclutch.com, rceng.com, statusracing.com, tceperformanceproducts.com, burnsstainless.com, performanceautowerks.com, ddmworks.com, turbowerx.com, BTF

Offline SKY888

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2010, 08:27:34 AM »
I'm not not slamming you for going the route you did, just trying to determine what's the most economical.

And FWIW, an LS1 only adds about 70 lbs over the stock weight of an LNF.

I know you're not.

in terms of price....I'm not really sure how much it will cost for an LS1 transplant.  I think it is at least $20k or sumthin from mallet website.....

my route is cheaper......and will not add 70 lbs.   
Probably 50 lbs or less.   I haven't measured the weight of the gt40 yet. 
COMPOUND TURBOS (GT2860r & GT4294r) goal 800hp


CAR SPECS and PHOTOS:
https://www.facebook.com/SKY888CompoundTurbo

SPONSORS:
aeroforce.com, nitrofreeze.com, forgestar.com, splitsec.com, turbosmartonline.com, k1technologies.com, supertechperformance.com, specclutch.com, rceng.com, statusracing.com, tceperformanceproducts.com, burnsstainless.com, performanceautowerks.com, ddmworks.com, turbowerx.com, BTF

Offline Kelu

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2010, 08:28:54 AM »
Sounds system and sound deading put more weight than this :)
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

Offline Arabas

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2010, 08:44:58 AM »
Sky888, everybody is with you on this project!!
we all have a lot to learn from this and your ride is going to be awesome!!!!
although i like the looks and the sound of a V8, i believe that yours is going to have more and more brutal power!
IMHO whoever stated that there is no replacement for displacement, made a mistake...

modern turbos prove the opposite (i know a lot of you guys will disagree, but as i said it s my opinion)

Way to go Sky888, pls keep us updated!!!
DDM Works Backbone and probeam
H&R springs
SOLO HF Cat and Mach Shorty
Dejon Throttle Elbow
Dejon-AEM intake
Front Big Brake upgrade kit with Ferodo pads
Trifecta tune
Custom IC and pipes
LVKFCB

Offline SKY888

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2010, 08:48:32 AM »
thanks Arabas.

I love the sound of V8 :)

but its more fascinating to hear the sound of two turbos SPOOLING at two different times ;)


COMPOUND TURBOS (GT2860r & GT4294r) goal 800hp


CAR SPECS and PHOTOS:
https://www.facebook.com/SKY888CompoundTurbo

SPONSORS:
aeroforce.com, nitrofreeze.com, forgestar.com, splitsec.com, turbosmartonline.com, k1technologies.com, supertechperformance.com, specclutch.com, rceng.com, statusracing.com, tceperformanceproducts.com, burnsstainless.com, performanceautowerks.com, ddmworks.com, turbowerx.com, BTF

Offline Arabas

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2010, 08:52:11 AM »
Sky888, i almost forgot (although Kelu should have posted it in the first place)

 :ttiwwp:
DDM Works Backbone and probeam
H&R springs
SOLO HF Cat and Mach Shorty
Dejon Throttle Elbow
Dejon-AEM intake
Front Big Brake upgrade kit with Ferodo pads
Trifecta tune
Custom IC and pipes
LVKFCB

Offline SKY888

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2010, 08:54:19 AM »
Sky888, i almost forgot (although Kelu should have posted it in the first place)

 :ttiwwp:

no pictures yet, since we start the project in a week :)

but if you wana see some of the parts of the project that are already available....and updated progress of the project.....check out my facebook account.
COMPOUND TURBOS (GT2860r & GT4294r) goal 800hp


CAR SPECS and PHOTOS:
https://www.facebook.com/SKY888CompoundTurbo

SPONSORS:
aeroforce.com, nitrofreeze.com, forgestar.com, splitsec.com, turbosmartonline.com, k1technologies.com, supertechperformance.com, specclutch.com, rceng.com, statusracing.com, tceperformanceproducts.com, burnsstainless.com, performanceautowerks.com, ddmworks.com, turbowerx.com, BTF

Offline Uranium-238

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2010, 08:55:24 AM »
Mallet is a joke. "Junkyard" LS1's can be had for $1500, wouldn't be too hard for any good shop to stuff it in our cars. And if you want to go with a new crate engine, LS3s run about 5-6k, LS1's a bit less.

Arabas, you're right about modern turbos, but you really should see what they do to a small block V8! :P
All LS motors for this family...
2005 Chevy Silverado Z71 Crew Cab
2012 Chevy Camaro 2SS RS M6

Offline Critterman

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2010, 09:01:15 AM »
Besides it being so much fun, when you stop at the next light, roll down your window, smile and say.  Yeap, it's a 4 banger!

Good luck on the build Antonio, please keep us in the loop and since Kelu forgot, don't you forget

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Offline Treeman

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2010, 03:46:56 PM »
This is really cool!!  I love clever solutions and this is a very clever one. 

You know, with the way auto manufacturers are moving more and more to turbos again and getting fancy with them, you may want to let GM know what your up to.  Who knows what they may try to contribute (in a good way, know it could be bad too) to your project.  I bet Flash's Owner or IMSODAMNINSANE (I think the latter is the right person) on the BB would be interested.  They are both GM engineers.
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Offline GXPinKC

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Re: LIPSTICK'S 600hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2010, 05:37:55 PM »
SKY888 and your 2008 Saturn Sky Redline, first thanks for joining this great forum and for sharing the build process from start to finish.  Can't wait to see the final product.  It will be fun to follow the progress of the build. 
Code 1100, Order#KCPDVV 04-28-2006, Delivery: 12-27-2006 

2007 Aggressive GXP, 5-speed, Ebony Leather seats w red accent stitching, Chrome Wheels, Air, 6-Disc, Monsoon, Sport Metallic Pedals & Premium Headliner.

MSRP $30,300 less $1,000 GMMC credit.  Deal: $28,180. ($2,120 under MSRP).


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