Topic: LatinVenom Front Chassis Brace project 2nd order

[LatinVenom]

 Hello Latin Venom if he doesn't want it I would like to buy it. If he does buy it are you going to have some more made up? And if so when?

             Thanks Melissa

Melissa.
If Ilias does not respond by the end of the week, then you can have the last one.

Let's see if there are anymore Kappa owners that would like to have them.

I can certainly make another 10 but would need people committed to buy them.

[Sly Bob]

Thanks Sly Bob,
Still almost half of the price of the LVKFCBrace.

It is a lot of money but unfortunately I believe that our friends in Europe have gotten used to high shipping costs from the U.S.

[HAMMER DOWN]

  It's finally here

Thanks LV, It look very nice

Mike

[DirtyMike]

Mine too, thanks again buddy!

[SolNut]

Mine too, thanks again buddy!

Thanks for the great service!!

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!! 

Steve
 

[melissadunagan]

  Thanks Latin Venom let me know if he buys it.

   I hope you all have a great Thanksgiving

[HAMMER DOWN]

And installed & tested  Fit & finish is excellent. 

[LatinVenom]

Melissa,
IliasGT from Greece send me an e-mail asking to purchase it.

The USPS with insurance is just under $45.00 USD

I will start a third batch and see if we have anymore members that would like to have one.
Thanks again to everyone and happy Thanksgiven.

[LatinVenom]

Updated List   Powder Coat      Shipped date.

1. Sly Bob      Silver                    11/17/2010
2. DirtyMike    RED                      11/23/2010
3. pharmboy   RED                     11/18/2010
4. CT_Solstice RED                    11/18/2010
5. Hammer Down  RED             11/18/2010
6. Imaj          Silver                    11/17/2010
7. gmtech16450yz  Silver        11/17/2010
8. Carp Diem          Silver           11/17/2010
9. Mike1885           Silver           11/18/2010
10. smiling clint  RED                 11/18/2010
11. bowtiess        Silver             11/17/2010
12. speedracer69  Silver           11/18/2010
13. deepblueGXP   Silver           11/18/2010
14. SolNut           Silver               11/22/2010
15. IliasGT           Silver              11/27/2010 USPS

Thank you.


More information about what the fuss is all about can be found here.
http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php?topic=5206.0

[LatinVenom]

3rd Batch of LV Kappa Front Chassis Brace


Updated List            Powder Coat      Shipped date.

1. Melissadunagan     Silver
2. Arabas                     Silver
3. Mark in INdiana      Silver
4.
5.
6.
8. 
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.                 

Thank you.


More information about what the fuss is all about can be found here.
http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php?topic=5206.0

[gmtech16450yz]

Got mine yesterday, installed it this morning. Literally took like 5 minutes. The welds, design, fit and powdercoating are all excellent. Haven't driven the car yet so I can't report on effects but it can't help but strengthen the front frame.

Thanks again LV, you put together a good product.
John

[Arabas]

LV pls count me in for the 3rd order, silver color, shipped by USPS (i believe it is around $45 for shipment, correct?).
if however you cannot ship to Europe, i totally understand and that's fine with me.

[gmtech16450yz]

Drove the Sky quite a bit, I would say there is a noticeable difference with the brace on it. It's not huge, but the front end does feel slightly tighter. With the Backbone, Probeam, ZOK sway bars and urethane bushings the thing feels like a friggin go kart anyway.

In my opinion, the brace that LV has put together is an all around very good product. Fit and finish (PERFECT on clearances!), build quality, strength of design and materials, ease of installation, noticeable (but don't expect huge) difference with it on, good packaging, excellent updates on order process, and fair price. Not many products you can say all those things about, good job LV!

[LatinVenom]

LV pls count me in for the 3rd order, silver color, shipped by USPS (i believe it is around $45 for shipment, correct?).
if however you cannot ship to Europe, i totally understand and that's fine with me.

Arabas,
Yes I can ship via USPS.
The way it brakes down is as follows:
$41.09 for the USPS delivery
$3.40 for insurance.
Then the PAYPAL fees.

[LatinVenom]

Drove the Sky quite a bit, I would say there is a noticeable difference with the brace on it. It's not huge, but the front end does feel slightly tighter. With the Backbone, Probeam, ZOK sway bars and urethane bushings the thing feels like a friggin go kart anyway.

In my opinion, the brace that LV has put together is an all around very good product. Fit and finish (PERFECT on clearances!), build quality, strength of design and materials, ease of installation, noticeable (but don't expect huge) difference with it on, good packaging, excellent updates on order process, and fair price. Not many products you can say all those things about, good job LV!

I agree on your comment about (don't expect huge difference) specially if you have a ProBeam, BackBone, ZOK bars, etc.
However if you were to do the test on a TRACK, although again not huge but they will be very, very noticeable.
DeepBlueGXP tested it on the Drag Strip and found noticeable changes to the behavior of the car.
I am really waiting for someone to go to autox and also for IMAJ to give it a good workout.
I am hoping at least for IMAJ, to find the same noticeable improvements as I did, to the overall drive experience on the track.

[Arabas]

OK, count me in

[Imaj]

Next Sat. the 4th LV. Can't wait!

[Brad Kenny]

Ok so here is my short but interesting story...

Popped the hood today. Removed the resonator per Marvic's instructions. Installed the LVBRACE. Here is my opinions...
First of all my girlfriend has been dying to install a mod. So she installed it with little to no mechanical expierience. She had no problems and was actually let dow by how easy of an installation it was.

Having a Race Backbone tightened the squat of my car. Installing the Probeam tightened up the rear end twist and tire shudder on tight corners. Installing the GXP front and rear sway bars with a DDM hand tuned alignment at -1.5 front and -2.5 rear, removed the under and oversteer in the car and made it handle like an olympic ice skater on freshly sharpened skates.

Now my assessment of the LV Brace on a highly modified and tuned 2.4L...

WOW!!! Huge difference. Tightened the whole front end up. Removed lane drifting after going over "high" speed bumps and just tied all my suspension mods together. I could definitely tell there was a difference in the front end.

I live at the foothills of the adirondacks and put over 100 miles on the brace under as many conditions as I could. Every turn was rock solid. You knew exactly where the car was going to go.

So my final assessment: two thumbs up, a must buy, similar to a Probeam.

If anyone with a 2.4L wants to get a better feel in the front of their car and tie all their suspension mods together, this is a must have.

[gmtech16450yz]

However if you were to do the test on a TRACK,

Ummmm, yeah LV, I pretty much drive my car the same on the mountain roads by my house as I would on a track! And my car is putting out over 400hp so it twists that frame plenty! Believe me, I give my car a much harder workout than in any autocross I've driven it in. Last drive I spent 40 minutes at speeds up to 130mph trying to keep my buddies Z06 off my tail. (I live in Mexico of course.)

Yes, the brace makes a difference.

[LatinVenom]

That is a pretty good report, from both of you.
However what I need to know is as follows.
Body lean, how much less?.
At high speeds on a straight line, how much more of a solid feel the car has?.
On bank curves at high speed, does the car still behaves as though you were driving at a lower speed?.
In other words, now that I have the suspension and the car body locked into one, the tires have become the Achilles heel, yes?.
The above assumes a very good driver.
 

[HAMMER DOWN]

I have only 3\8" DDM Back bone. That really tighten up the car over stock. But you still had some under steer. Adding the LV front brace, swung it the other way. Now when driving very spiritedly on tight twisty roads I have some over steer. The front is very responsive, but I can feel the rear twisting & trying to keep in line and failing. The DDM Probeam is on my Christmas list. That should bring the front & rear into more of a balance.

Thanks LV for great product.

Mike  

[gmtech16450yz]

That is a pretty good report, from both of you.
However what I need to know is as follows.
Body lean, how much less?.
At high speeds on a straight line, how much more of a solid feel the car has?.
On bank curves at high speed, does the car still behaves as though you were driving at a lower speed?.
In other words, now that I have the suspension and the car body locked into one, the tires have become the Achilles heel, yes?.
The above assumes a very good driver.
 

Ok, I'll try...

With the suspension mods I've done, there is almost no body lean on extreme turns. I have a u-turn that I do every day on my way home from work, It's basically like making a u-turn from one lane to the one next to you, the Sky is one of the few cars that has a turning radius tight enough to make it without going into the opposite lane. For example, my truck not only goes into the other lane, it goes right up against the curb on the other side of the street. Ok, so in the Sky I can go up to the turnaround at about 30mph, push in the clutch, whip the steering wheel full lock and make the turn. After about 3/4 of the way through the turn I let out the clutch and start to get on it in 2nd gear.

So with the addition of the LV brace, body roll may be a little less, and the frame stiffness does feel slightly tighter. What I mean by that is on a stock Kappa, the same turn at the same speed with roll more, squeak the tires (stock tires will scream) and just not whip around it with as much force. If you've driven like that enough, it's more of just a "feel", you can feel if the tires are folding under or holding camber straight even with heavy loads. You can "feel" frame flex, and you can tell when you're driving a car with a lot or very little. I grew up driving '60's muscle cars, I had a '67 Mercury Cougar that I used to jump on this one road near my house. (yep, all four wheels off the ground!) The jump wasn't straight, so when you lifted off and landed you could literally feel the car twisting. After a few dozen times doing that, you could stand behind the car and look at the trunk and the hood and see the car was actually permanently twisted. (oops.) That car didn't have a frame, and was EXTREMELY "loose" as far as cars now are. So when you'd transition from one turn to the next, the body would have to "unwind" from one direction to the other. The tighter you get the frame and suspension, the quicker the car can recover from one turn and be ready for the next.

I think I'm getting a little off of your actual question here LV, but I have another analogy about frame and suspension stiffness... I've raced dirt bikes since I was a kid, frame and suspension stiffness is HUGE on dirt bikes, and motorcycles in general. Picture hitting a deep rut and an angle while going very fast on a bike. The force of hitting the rut wants to push the wheels sideways, but not evenly because you're not hitting the rut straight on. On a bike with a weak frame and suspension, the bike will absorb all that force in the frame, forks, wheels, etc. After you're through the rut, all that stored up energy is released and the frame, forks, wheels, etc will bend back the other direction. I've landed a big jump successfully only to have the rebound of all that energy be too much to handle and end up crashing 50 feet from the landing. Now take that same rut with a stiff frame and suspension, and all the energy is absorbed in the suspension, transmitting almost none into the frame because it's strong enough to hold the suspension mount points solid.

Soooo, back to the u-turn... I would say there IS less twist felt with the LV brace on, it just changes direction in a more planted, solid manner. As far as the tire question, if you have crappy tires (stock Goodyears suck) yes, they will end up being the weak link because they can't take the increased loads. Just like the bike analogy, if the frame is stronger, all that energy has to go somewhere, so yes, the suspension and tires are taking more of that load. If you have good tires, they'll just work a little better with suspension that holds angles like it's supposed to.

On your high speed stability questions, again, this isn't so much about your brace specifically but here's my thoughts...
So the question about a "solid feel" at high speeds, yes and no. Back to the loose, flexy car and bike analogies, yes, a stiffer frame and suspension will feel more "solid" at high speeds, but might also feel a little more "lively" too. Meaning the "tighter" you get a car to handle, the faster it can make those direction changes. Hit a pothole, or something like my bike crossing a rut at an angle, and having a tighter, quicker moving car can be a handful. In a big Cadillac you'll sway back and forth a little, but you're probably not going to feel it in the steering. Hit that rut in a tightened up Kappa, and if you're not holding on to that wheel tight, you might be in for a surprise. I've done some high speed, left, right, up, down, another quick left then off camber back to the right, quick transitions in the Sky and let me tell you, it can be a handful. It's awesome to have a car that responds to the slightest steering and braking inputs, but you need to be really quick to be able to recover if it gets away from you. With a stock suspension, things happen a little slower so you have more time to adjust, but at that point you might not have enough suspension and brakes to save it either.
Short answer- after putting all the suspension and frame bracing that's out there for the Kappa's on your car, it will "feel"  more "solid", but it might make it a little less forgiving at higher speeds.

Last question about high speed curves...
Yes, the brace will make high speed curves feel like you're at a slower speed. Ever notice how riding in a "loose" car or truck (or even worse, in the back of a bus) on a twisty road makes you sick? Ride the same road in the passenger seat of a Vette or something else like that and you don't get sick, even at twice the speeds. Stiffer suspension, frames, tires, body, all that definitely make high speed turns feel like you're going through them at a lower speed. When I went from my old "bike hauler" truck (an older full size Chevy with good power but old, soft suspension) to my '08 GMC Sierra V-Max, that has huge sway bars, overbuilt suspension and brakes, super strong frame and excellent tires, my riding buddy and I noticed something really weird after driving it on a few trips. We noticed that all the sudden going to the same places we've gone to for years seems to (and actually does) take less time to get there and back. Same roads, better, tighter frame and  suspension.

Holy cr#p, can you tell I'm just sitting around with nothing to do but ramble on in a forum this evening? I know I was a little off track with my blabbering, but hopefully I came close to answering your questions! As I said before, the brace does help tighten the car up. Coming up with an exact before and after assessment I believe is extremely hard on stuff like this. I can't tell you that before on my u-turn test that I had .91g's and after putting your brace on it went to .93, I don't have the time, equipment, team of experts and resources to eliminate all the variables to come up with an accurate assessment. I do know when a car "feels" and works well, and your brace can't hurt in getting the Kappa's towards that goal. Like I also said before, I believe this kind of thing is a "cumulative" type of thing, I've had guys that work on Kappa's everyday drive my car and are blown away by the handling. Obviously all the mods added up to a car that is VERY different, and for ME and how I drive, better than a stock Kappa.

[Sly Bob]

WOW! Thanks GMtech for taking the time to write that lengthy review. I have to agree that it can be rather difficult to come up with a scientific assessment of something like this. In the end it's really how it makes the car feel anyway. I'm looking forward to installing mine in the spring at MMM8.

[Kuprito]

Arabas,
Yes I can ship via USPS.
The way it brakes down is as follows:
$41.09 for the USPS delivery
$3.40 for insurance.
Then the PAYPAL fees.

What about a new group buy for Europe? Sending all braces to one member in Europe, and send them to the other locations. Would be a lot cheaper sending one single package with 5-6 braces crossing the pound.

[LatinVenom]

1st thanks to gmtech16450yz for your response to my questions.
What you are describing supports my tests for the past 3 month before I went an announce the product to the forum.
However to be fair, DDM and Werks had done their own testing.
I just wanted to make sure that my simple designed would not be compromise because of it's simplicity.
Although simple in design there are some very important values(pipe and bracket size) that need it to be incorporated, in order for it to work as good as the DDM and Werks.
I am glad the reports coming in are very positive and support my data.
Thanks again to everyone that has taken the time to respond back their findings.