Topic: To V, or not to V...

[Uranium-238]

Well? Post up your thoughts on weather or not it's worth stuffing a V8 into a Kappa.

As for me, I'm all for it. Weight gains should be pretty small, and there's no way a turbo 4 car can come close to a V8 in terms of low end torque.

[G8TR]

Been waiting for you to do this. Watched your posts and figured where you might be heading. Now, the funds, and the engineering? 

[Uranium-238]

Well, first order of business is to get closer to paying off the car, and not ditch it for a 2011 Mustang in the meantime...so for now I plan, and learn.

[Kelu]

I'm for V8, those engine are very rare around here and always make me to turn my head when I hear them. If I wouldn't be living here and have some few cash available I would do it in a snap.

[NormSky]

All depends what you want to do with the car. I've owned 5 LSX engined cars and don't miss the noise nor the heavy front end. They all were road coursed and auto crossed too.

Here is a link to some discussions. The bigger is better is not the end all to the debate.

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f65/v8-weight-imbalance-theories-debunked-60618/


Norm

[2kwk4u]

I plan on doing a conversion if/when I wear out the LNF.  Ultimately I'd like to go insane and drop in a magnacharged LS2 or LS3.  Will see what the budget allows when I get around to it.  Hopefully LS3 are cheaper and easier to come by in a few years.

[wspohn]

Well? Post up your thoughts on weather or not it's worth stuffing a V8 into a Kappa.

As for me, I'm all for it.

If you have made up your mind, why would you care what anyone else thinks?  Looking for peer validation?

[Uranium-238]

No, honestly I'm looking for any and every reason not to keep drooling over the new Mustang.

No, really I asked that because over on the brake line thread that we hijacked it looked like more people were interested in debating this. Honestly, I haven't made up my mind, but a V8 is something I'd like to do-if it's feasible.

The aforementioned Mustang may well make it not. I've always been a Ford guy, and I nearly bought a Mustang, only went with a Kappa since it got better gas mileage and had a link to the Opel GTs which I've always liked. Now Ford builds a 412 hp V8 that gets 25 mpg highway, and my reason for picking a Kappa over it are gone.

[LatinVenom]

To me if you want a V8 then go for a Vette.
Mustang, Camaro and Challanger are in a different league than our cars or the Vette.
Is all in what you want, but putting a V8 on our car, although impressive is just to much engine for the Kappa platform.

[2kwk4u]

It's not too much engine until you can't help but smoke the tires in every gear   

Then you just need to get taller gears 

[Uranium-238]

Plenty of small wheelbase cars have had monster engines stuffed into them, for starters just look at the Cobras.

And while the Mustang is still a muscle car, and while it doesn't have IRS, it should handle just about as well as our cars based on the numbers I've seen so far. Really, it should be an incredible car, but we won't know for sure till people start racing them.

[LatinVenom]

The Camaro, Mustang and Challanger do handle pretty good but are not in the same league as our Kappas.
The car was never designed for a V8, it does not matter that a V8 has been stuffed in there.

[2kwk4u]

Counterpoint: The AC Ace was never designed as a V8 either  But Carroll Shelby fixed that  

Though it is true that once Shelby went from small blocks to big blocks, he had to build an entirely new chasis b/c the stock one twisted with all the torque and it was a REAL monster to drive...

Actually, from the reviews I'm seeing the V6 Mustang even is a pretty rockin car.  They're hyping 305HP and 30+MPG hwy.  I'm not a Ford guy, though.  I have owned a Mustang, but that was when I was in college and I bought it for a hundred bucks.

[Ben L]

The Camaro, Mustang and Challanger do handle pretty good but are not in the same league as our Kappas.
The car was never designed for a V8, it does not matter that a V8 has been stuffed in there.

Respectfully disagree on the "league" a well-prepped Mustang is in vis a vis handling.  And the 5.0 modular motor on the 2011 GT promises to be awesome.

[numbbers]

It depends on what you want.  If you like to drive a car, rather than just ride in it, and want more power than you can use, a sound that will draw people from a quarter mile away, and a crowd around your car in every parking lot, then get the V8.  With the spring/shock combination that Mallett puts in the car, The extra 150 pounds in the front, makes the front stick a little better, but the torque of the V8, tends to make the rear pretty loose.  So, you may need to use some opposite lock to get maximum performance on the track.  On the street, it is just fast.  VERY, VERY, FAST.

[DeepBlueGXP]

Mustangs are great for straight lines. Unless you get the GT500.  The GT doesn't have independent rear so cornering will suck.  Expecially in Auto X.    Stick a V8 in your Sky.  The car is destined to have one.  I'll drop a LS3 when my LNF wears out.

[wspohn]

Mustangs are great for straight lines. Unless you get the GT500.  The GT doesn't have independent rear so cornering will suck.  Expecially in Auto X.    

I have no personal knowledge of how the current Mustangs handle, but I have to take issue with your statement that lack of IRS automatically means poor handling.

On a smooth track, there is little difference between a live axle and an IRS.  On a bumpy road, the IRS is much more comfortable and will also stick better.

I have raced both and can say this from experience.  My IRS car and my live axle car with similar power were comparable.

Where an IRS car will have an advantage, is against a live axle car without limited slip, especially in a tight course (such as a solo event) because the live axle will waste time lifting and spinning the unweighted wheel, while the IRS car, even without an LSD, will get better traction.

Add some sort of LSD to the live axle car, and much of the advantage goes away.

I have run live axle cars in both road racing and solo and beaten many IRS cars.  In fact I took a dead stock MG that didn't even have a sway bar and won FTD against prepared cars (its called driving), and did not find the lack of an IRS to be any problem at all.  Half the competition was IRS.

Sorry to take you to task, but I hate seeing blanket incorrect statements like "If it doesn't have IRS the handling will suck".  There are a lot more factors in good handling than simply the type of suspension used.

[Kelu]

Seriously, DBG make a book with full info, make a DYI kit and setup a extra cost phone line.

[DeepBlueGXP]

I can't find the video (Top Gear - Test drive of the new Mustang) but I used their test of the new mustang as my reference.  I personally haven't driven a mustang.  

[wspohn]

Yeah, I haven't either and probably won't.  As I recall their IRS was a mixed bag, not totally successful, but that's the problem with a lot of IRS systems, you need some room back there to get the best geometry, and it doesn't keep the tires flat on the road as a live axle does.

A lot of the V8 swapping MG guys use the Jaguar IRS and it is a compromise as well - not ideal geometry, inboard brakes that don't cool, and added weight.

I guess I currently have 3 IRS and 6 non-IRS cars, and I don't really have any preference either way for the street.  I very much enjoyed racing an IRS car that I sold (now racing in Europe).

[Critterman]

Okay, I have to admit that their is nothing that sounds like a lopping v8, but do I want one in the kappa?  Car is a handful for these old reflexes now, but......

nothing sounds like a V8  ideling on the cam shaking the  #$% out of you in cockpit, followed by the thunder of exhaust when you snap the trottle open.......

You will have to excuse me, I think I had an accident.

[LatinVenom]

By the time you spend all that money in stuffing that V8 on the Kappa, you could have purchase a use C6 Z06 and the rest is history.

[Uranium-238]

True, but if you let the stock motor crap out first, then what?

After getting rides in Ben's Coupe and Larry's Cobra, I'm sold on how much fun a short wheelbase high powered car can be. Plus, if people stuff 347's in Miatas why can't we do the same?

[Ben L]

In the recent relevant experience department -- Larry Casey's FFR Cobra has a 9" Ford live axle rear, and Wade Chamberlain runs a live axle on his FFR.  They are top local autoxers, any club, any venue.  

Over on the Capital Driving Club forum, someone commented about how the top three cars Wade (FTD by over a full second), Larry, and Jim Harris in a 2008 Bullit edition GT Mustang were all live axle rigs last Saturday.  Beat everything else in a 60+ car field --  BMWs, Miatas, S2000s, Subies, Audis, Porsches, C6 Vettes, a Lotus, a Morgan, a Sprite, you name it.  

Pssst.  Its the driving.

[NormSky]

Most of the time it's the driving. Pe the amount of prep allowed in each class. Maybe we should look at PAX times? The OP didn't sound like he was was doing anything but tooling around.

Norm