Topic: LIPSTICK'S 800hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!

[roxer]

   WOW!!!!!! 

[SKY888]

Caswell Ultra Wet Black Powdercoat






Turbowerx Exa-pump (ultra high performance electric scavenging pump for my turbo)
This is the only available spot inside the engine bay

[SKY888]

stock intake manifold w/ port injectors have been powdercoated and ready to be installed.
LE5 bigger throttle body was also fitted in this manifold.








manifold installed, but a longer charge pipe needs to be re-frabicated

[ryansalazan]

looks great man! Question, where did you get the fuel rail from?

[SKY888]

looks great man! Question, where did you get the fuel rail from?

Ryan, from rossmachineracing

Ask for Thomas Ross, tell him I'm your friend

[ryansalazan]

Ok thanks man! I really cant wait to see what your car can do! Looking forward to the manifold!

[SKY888]

BTF said he'll go to post office to ship it yesterday. Hopefully he did!

[SKY888]

Fabrication of New cold side pipe that fits with stock intake manifold was finished today.


Big thanks to Hurst-shifters for sending me Line-lock kit!
Also installed today

[SKY888]

No engine leaks so far!!!   








Update:   We decided to not use E85 for the secondary fuel system.   We will be using  VP  M1 pure methanol instead.

[Jim]

Update:   We decided to not use E85 for the secondary fuel system.   We will be using  VP  M1 pure methanol instead.

Are you doing that just for consistency?

[SKY888]

Jim, that's one of the reasons. Plus there's only one e85 station from me (1 hour away).

There's a lot of VP dealership closer to me.


Other reasons are:
- m1 will be way cooler for boosting 45+ psi
- also will increase higher octane
- consistency

[Jim]

Makes sense to me. How's the price comparison? I haven't had to buy a 55 gallon drum of methanol in a long time but remember it being reasonably priced.

[SKY888]

It's around $5-6 a gallon which is not bad at all, if I buy a 5 gallon.
I think it will be cheaper if I get the 55 gallon.

Plus I will have no fear of getting a "bad batch".

It will be consistent the whole time.

I can't afford to get a bad batch, it can easily grenade the engine.

[Jim]

I can understand that. Especially with winter blends of e85.

[elff]

Why Pure meth vs 50/50?  That stuff is dangerous.

[SKY888]

Why Pure meth vs 50/50?  That stuff is dangerous.

Why you say it's dangerous?

Because it's very corrosive? Or because it's toxic when inhaled or go thru your skin?
Or because when there's flame it is not visible?

Due to methanol's corrosive nature just like ethanol, I'll dump the remaining methanol from my fuel cell before I store the car. I will put a gallon of 93 octane inside the fuel cell, and I have a pump that will prime that 93 octane to my entire secondary fuel system (PI system) including the lines and injectors. This will make sure that they get "cleaned" from methanol's toxicity (hygroscopic nature).

Ethanol is as corrosive as methanol. When we used it last year, and we didn't dump it and clean the secondary system, it caused my RC injectors' tips to rust. That's why I replaced the injectors with an alcohol resistant pico-style injectors.

Either I use ethanol or methanol, both will be corrosive due to them being hygroscopic. And will require some minor maintenance of my secondary fuel system (I mentioned above.....dumping and replacing w/ 93 octane during winter).
With this, I chose to go with methanol.



50/50 or what most water/methanol kit is basically just there to cool the air charge and VERY VERY slightly bump the octane. Probably not even bump it at all. These kits cools and not really there to "add fuel" to run an engine.



With my port injectors (secondary fuel system), its main purpose is to add fuel. Cooling the charge air is an icing to the cake

During high boost, I'm using about 90% DI (93 octane) and 10% PI (meth) to fuel my engine.
So 93 is around 15-1 stoich and  meth is around 4-1 stoich. How much more fluid to inject 10% lambda? About 4x right?
By having to vaporized about 4x more fluid, how much more heat is removed? Lots of heat removed


Now that our charge air is much cooler, boost can go higher, increases the proportion of PI to DI



So to answer your question, why not 50/50......it's because I need pure alcohol to mainly add fuel or else I'll run out of fuel during high boost.

 
Methanol burning cooler compared to e85 is an advantage too.

[elff]

Why you say it's dangerous?

Because it's very corrosive? Or because it's toxic when inhaled or go thru your skin?
Or because when there's flame it is not visible?

Yes to all. 

50/50 or what most water/methanol kit is basically just there to cool the air charge and VERY VERY slightly bump the octane. Probably not even bump it at all. These kits cools and not really there to "add fuel" to run an engine.

The cooling effect of the 50/50 mix makes up for the lack of Octane, so the actually tuning benefits compared to going with 100% methanol on most applications are better with 50/50
But the above is based on a vehicle running a combination of gas and methanol injection at the same time without a need for additional Fuel. 
That being said,
this build of yours and how you are expecting to need a significant amount of extra fuel, is definitely not most applications.

Once you get to the point of really testing this out, I will be curious to see how the fueling situation works out.

E85 due to it being less efficient in producing power [Even though it has higher knock resistance] requires more volume than regular gas and would work against you

[SKY888]

Yes, those things are the  downfall of methanol.
But using ethanol will have also the same effect (probably except invisible flame).
Using c16 or q16 and other leaded race fuels will kill catalytic converters as well as O2 sensors.....and foul plugs. Plus of course super expensive.
All of them will have their pros & cons and I'll just have to pick my poison


Regarding 50/50 spray, IMO, if it's meant to be for cooling purposes, I rather spray 100% water since water has better cooling properties than methanol anyways. Water can't be burn like methanol, but it also prevents detonation. Plus water is cheaper
But for some they like 50/50 to get both cooling effect & increase the octane.  I believe Ryan Salazar has 4 nozzles on his manifold. If he uses 50/50 then probably increase the octane a bit.
Some swear by 100% water, some like 100% meth, some like 50/50. I guess pick whatever your tuner likes! They all will benefit your high boosted engine as long as they are tuned properly
Only problem is, most water/meth kits are meant only for pure water or 50/50. Some don't recommend using pure methanol




I never had plans of using e85 or e47 for my DI due to it being scarce in my area. Plus of course, you need that extra 30% fuel delivery (e85) which my DI will not be able to provide. E47 is better for LNF di system since it's not being taxed too much. But neither e85 or e47 are my choices for my DI, due to my reasons above.  Last yr, I chose E85 Only for PI because, I don't want to get stuck somewhere and not be able to get e85 for my DI. Not like if I have 93 on my DI, and e85 on my PI, if I run out of e85, I can just turn off my high boost & secondary fuel system, and I can still drive around without any issues.

By adding my secondary fuel system, I can basically use whatever fuel I wanted to use from c16 to e85 to methanol since the system is compatible to methanol/ethanol. I'll need to hard anodize my aluminum fuel cell to make sure it will last against the corrosiveness of alcohol. Plus of course, I have to dump whatever I use during winter, and replace it with 93 octane for my regular maintenance of the system.

[SKY888]

On setting B it hits 40psi in about the same time. We just wanna get clean combustion up to 7500 with 40psi. That is the goal, and no small feat here with 2 fuel systems( direct injection and port fuel M1),2 boost control regimes in 2 different controllers.

You can feel with no uncertainty when the large gate opens fully (after LP turbo is lit a little). The increase in Mass flow to the secondary turbine is substantial and the LP pretty much walks around the HP turbo, leaving it at a PR of like 1.2-1.4 pending on RPM. This was what we were hoping for as data shows 8-12 psi positive delta across the engine in some spots.

The only real concern at this point is T2 compressor. At a PR of 3.2 ish discharge temps are in the oven at high rpm since the GT42 is doing the heavy lifting by that point. The timing paint on the compressor of the GT28 is cooked to a different color. Its obviously experiencing significant thermal loads in addition to the mechanical forces acting on it as it approaches max shaft speed below 4krpm.(inferred from MAP,MAF and compressor map) .

Perhaps interstage intercooling would reduce the stress on the HP compressor. I have a leftover AEM meth kit that be could plumb into the LP compressor and tie it to LP pressure. SInce that is pre BOV it will have to be less then 20% alcohol or pure water.



First rip on the street, about 20psi at 3900 and 30psi at 4900.

Way better spool response using the stock manifold




I am having a hard time posting videos of the engine start up.....as well as the first run on the steet!  If you want to check them out, pls go to my facebook page!

[SKY888]

AEM water methanol was re-installed so we can add inter-stage cooling.   

the small turbo is currently being cooked as what I stated on the previous post.      We will be using pure water to cool off the small turbo with this AEM w/m kit during HIGH BOOST (probably from 25-50psi)

[DeepBlueGXP]

how close are you to your 800hp goal? 

[SKY888]

how close are you to your 800hp goal? 

Far from it! Lol!

Last year....right before my timing chain skipped, car was near 500whp.
What's that equivalent to hp?


Now, BTF is just street tuning it. Then will go on dyno for WOTs

He was hesitant to push it beyond 500whp last year since he's not comfortable with the K1 rods being beefy enough to handle the stress. With the Carillo h-beams he just installed, he's way comfortable to push the set up.

I'm hoping the timing chain, chain tensioner, etc will hold this time around

[elff]

Even if you don't make 800, Just having this build drivable is awesome

[SKY888]

Even if you don't make 800, Just having this build drivable is awesome

i might not....who knows?

as long as the engine is strong.....and I can have it to drive it!   its been a million of years!

[SKY888]

water/meth spray installed for inter-stage intercooling......which should help engine delta







all my controllers are nicely tucked in a safe environment: