Topic: Need a little direction on internals .......

[08skyldr]

I'm getting ready to start modding the engine and may actually start with the internals first. For those of you that have already upgraded or are in the process of upgrading your internals, could you point me to some of the resellers? To avoid breaking any forum rules, if your willing to provide some vendor names I'll send you my e-mail.

Thanks

[Arabas]

check with DDM (they always have something useful) and also check at performance autowerks for pistons and rods. both are vendors here. by the way, Werks has an online dicount running now for Xmas. i think 10% off.
check his thread in this forum if you are interested.

i m pretty sure there are people in this forum that can help you more with this.

keep us updated on your project!!!

[DeepBlueGXP]

Welcome to the forum 08skyldr.  We also have a pending vendor that may have some products too.  Details to follow in the next few days.

[kennysabarese]

Make sure you check out the gmtunersource.com website and get the Ecotec build book. Its a good primer, though most here seem to think they are very conservative in what power levels are achievable reliably.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out !!!

[snaponbob]

Since nobody asked, I will !!! What external mods are you planning? The Ecotec engines are rather robust, so unless you are planning something extreme the may be no need.

[08skyldr]

My goal is to purchase a turbo upgrade here in the next few weeks and then get it re-tuned.  After looking at some of the options, I was looking at a GT30 or a GT35.  I would like to get the car to the 400 - 450 whp range.  After reading some of the threads on the many forums there is a lot of talk about the internals being a limiting fact above the 400 mark.  Since my car will frequently visit the drag strip, I would like to ensure I don't kill the engine after a couple times out.  So I'm trying to identify what internals would be would need to be upgraded in order to help ensure I don't screw up the engine.  Right now I'm sitting at the 290whp range so I'm looking for at least 100 hp or more.

I have already started looking at the Performance Autowerks website and sent them a message last week.  They must be closed for the holidays as I haven't received a reply back.  I've even sent a message to another vendor and have yet to get a reply there as well.  Since I have some time before the tracks open again, I'll start to heavily pursue this after the New Year, but was looking for some guidance so I can better formulate my plans.

Thanks,
Richard

[Kelu]

I would go with:
- K1 rods (BTF had a great deal with combo with Wiseco pistons around $900-1000 for both iirc)
- Wiseco pistons ($530)
- rods and main bearings
- ARP head studs ($140)
- Valve springs (ZZP for low budget only $190 or Supertech $350)
- Head Gasket ($75)

I wouldn't touch anything else.

[kennysabarese]

I would go with:
- K1 rods (BTF had a great deal with combo with Wiseco pistons around $900-1000 for both iirc)
- Wiseco pistons ($530)
- rods and main bearings
- ARP head studs ($140)
- Valve springs (ZZP for low budget only $190 or Supertech $350)
- Head Gasket ($75)

I wouldn't touch anything else.

[SKY888]

I'm getting ready to start modding the engine and may actually start with the internals first. For those of you that have already upgraded or are in the process of upgrading your internals, could you point me to some of the resellers? To avoid breaking any forum rules, if your willing to provide some vendor names I'll send you my e-mail.

Thanks

most of the internals that you need are under my signature.

go to their websites, and you're all set

you can go with the basic stuff such as:

k1 technologies - rods
supertech - valves & springs
wiseco - pistons

ARP head studs is good.   You can also get them from Bates Engineering

Head gasket, you can use the stock one.   But if you need an aftermarket one, you can get it from Cometic.  I personally will be using Cometic Gastket.....


but once you want more serious internal build:
you can call Ray bates so he can sleeve your block.

It's nice to get Main studs as well.  You can get them from Bates Engineering

Darton MID sleeves is another brand of sleeves that you can purchase.  Just make sure the machinist who will install them knows what they're doing.....or you can have Darton install them for you.

Blocking the sleeves will make it stronger....and just in case one of your pistons messed up.........it will not damage/scratch your cylinder/block.


No need to buy Clevite bearings........our stockers will be fine til 800hp according to Ray Bates     He is the main guy of GM racing who has built 1400hp drag cars.  They tried almost all breaking points of hundreds of ecotec engines.  He knows them inside and out.   There's really no need to spend more money, if you really don't need them for your application.


if you want more detailed engine internal build...you can go to this:  http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php/topic,5042.0.html

also look for graywolf's thread.  He has a very similar internal engine build.

[LatinVenom]

You may also want to look at the Hahn 20g setup that is producing over 400 WHP.
However in either case you would want to upgrade the internals as suggested by the posts above.

[08skyldr]

Thanks for the reply's.  I know BNR is working on their stage 2 turbo, but I'm hearing that 360 hp will be it's top end.  I've sent an e-mail off about the Super 20g from Hahn but have yet to hear back from them.  I'm assuming it's because of the holidays.  As much as I would like to have this done in the next month, I'm going to be taking my time to get a solid setup.  I have a shop close by that is willing to work with me as they want to get inside this engine as their impressed with what it could do and what I want to do.  So we'll see, and I'll post something up when I get started.

Thanks all.

[Arabas]

looking forward to your upgrade 08skyldr !
if you could track progress of the engine upgrade along with fotos to post here, it would be great!!

Good luck!!!

[JoshMcMadMac]

Thanks for the reply's.  I know BNR is working on their stage 2 turbo, but I'm hearing that 360 hp will be it's top end.  I've sent an e-mail off about the Super 20g from Hahn but have yet to hear back from them.  I'm assuming it's because of the holidays.

You may also want to look at the Hahn 20g setup that is producing over 400 WHP.

Keep in mind that the 410HP that Jeb is making on the Hahn 20g setup involves a lot of methanol injection.  I do not believe he has dyno numbers, but he has speculated that without the methanol he would be at around 340HP.  Remember that when comparing it to the BNR turbo (that has not been dyno'd yet) that "only" will make 360HP.

[Jebsmith]

We can make 375whp with no meth.  Havnt done it yet but based on curent ipws and fp I can remove all meth and still be safe at or around 375.   And also keep in mind, my kit fit the very first time I installed it, no fab required, and I had the beta, I was expecting some fitment issues but it was perfect.

[Jebsmith]

Also, its not the turbo limiting hp at this point, its fuel, so if a 20g will make 412 with meth, it will make it with out meth,  just need more fuel

[08skyldr]

That's my sweet spot.  I have a friend of a friend of a friend who is able to get me a Walbro and it will be here in 2 weeks.  So I think I have the fuel issue resolved.

[kennysabarese]

the fuel problem is not because of the low pressure pump as far as i know. it's the high pressure pump.

and you don't need a walbro, you can just get a LPFP from a GMT900 platform truck it will plug and play. Suburbans Yukons Escalades etc. Make sure it's gas not flex fuel.

There is a thread on the BB about this, but it died a few months ago

[SKY888]

if you will be installing 255LPH Walbro fuel pump, have DDM convert it for you.

I bought their walbro kit a few months back for my application.

[Kelu]

Walbro isn't the pump to help the in-tank one? We lack of fuel in mid range because of HPFP not because of in-tank one iirc.

[Arabas]

IIRC the LPFP is the weakest link..
HPFP is adequate fro this kind of hp.
hmmmm.....
so, which pump is the weakest link?

[kennysabarese]

So some guys on the BB were saying that at extremely high speeds... like 130mph+ that they got a code saying LPFP cannot keep up.  One got a walbro, another got the GM pump but haven't seen an update from either of them in a while.

But for big power there are folks saying HPFP is the problem all the time.

[Jebsmith]

no need to go that fast