Topic: Will a GT3076R turbo work on a GXP

[IBDRINKEN]

So what all exactly would you need to upgrade rods/pistons

[Gentleman Jack]

So what all exactly would you need to upgrade rods/pistons

I'm gonna guess rods and pistons, but I'm an idiot, so don't take my word on it.

[Sol Asylum]

GJ do you know who Rod is or why IB is wanting to upgrade his piston?

[Gentleman Jack]

It can't be Rod Stewart. He is rumored to have an impressive piston. Rod Laver is dead, so probably not him. I don't know another Rod.

PS- thanks. Fixed)

[kwtoxman]

The ZFR option seems to now be a full go for the kappa. If not going full EFR system (and $$), nothing compares to this IMO.

http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l-lnf-performance-tech-153/zfr-solstice-%3D-win-303409/

[elff]

Hmmmmmmm, is this what you mean by does not compare?

ZFR

On the dyno the car only made 360 wtq, and 320 whp

2871

Our current tuned 2871's are putting around 375hp at the wheels on pump 93 without meth

350whp and a 379 tq. max

Keep in mind this was probably the first DDM install of a 2871 after the test car. I am sure the tunes have a little more in them now compared to what my car had.

Also my car was higher-ish miles... 65k or so at the time of install

Here is Miller's Dyno from a couple years ago

[kwtoxman]

I thought all of the previous posts on the EFR in this thread would say it all.

EFR info from this thread:
an EFR kit can get over 450 whp with good tuning and pulls that to redline http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php/topic,9911.msg166915.html#msg166915
EFR spools much faster
EFR kit has a huge advantage in power under the curve, the 2871 dyno is a big hump.

.....I'm only gonna say this... This dyno and mine are very good examples of why you REALLY shouldn't go by peak numbers. It's all about the curve. Peak numbers are only ~100hp/tq apart, but there's spots where it's about 150hp/tq difference. You need to look at how long it holds torque and hp, and how steep it drops off. Take the values at every 500rpm from 3k to 7k and add them up. Divide by how many points you added and look at the average. That will give you an idea of how the engine actually reacts on the street or track. High torque numbers with low hp numbers will give you a motor that feels "lazy" and won't want to rev out easily. A motor that makes hp all the way to redline will be a motor that feels like it revs and makes power forever. Basically the difference between a "lazy" motor and a "lively" motor. A motor that has a sharp torque curve that drops off quickly will be a car you'll definitely need to short shift. (NONE of these comments are directly relating to the 2871 OR the EFR, just general information.)

LV- The only reason (in my opinion) that anyone would opt for the smaller EFR would be to stay within a certain race series rules. The larger EFR still spools crazy fast and it definitely makes more top end power. And yeah, the price is just about the same.

     

ZFR info in link that is rather important:
initial very conservative tuning as the ZFR has barely ever been put on the kappa platform
running stock IC
stock IC impacting IAT2s significantly affected dyno runs
limiting boost


The ZFR won't do the peak hp that the EFR will as it uses the stock manifold, but it won't be 130 whp short either, as it seems you imply. As the link ZFR owner noted, with an IC and phenolic spacer, he is shooting for 400 whp. I don't know if he will get there, but I'm looking forward to finding out.

[Sol Asylum]

No fair Elff you were comparing them.

[elff]

You'd think all of the previous posts on the EFR in this thread would tell you something.

Yes they would. They would tell me that information pertains to a different turbo.
Not the ZFR.

All the information you just posted does not apply to the ZFR.
The ZFR uses the stock manifold like the 2871
and
the ZFR DOES NOT HAVE a CH from Borg Warner.

So if you are going to talk about the ZFR, then talk about the ZFR, not the EFR.  They are not the same.
One other thing, the HP number you posted with the EFR was on 100 Octane fuel [E47], not 93 octane fuel

GMTECH will agree with me on the ZFR and probably be less nice about it than I am.

As far as the numbers, I didn't imply anything, the guy posted his Dyno numbers.

I posted counter numbers for the 2871 with similar hardware and fuel.
Miller's dyno was at the same stage as AaronJ's and had very conservative tuning, stock intercooler, a hi flow cat and used 93 octane.

It was a very direct comparison with the only difference being the Turbo.  2871 vs ZFR

[LatinVenom]

Oh I need to get in here.
The ZFR and the EFR are the same turbo other than the flange to install on the manifold.
As a matter of fact the ZFR actually lets the EFR turbo be twin scroll, which gives a much better bottom end while been able to sustain the top end.
The GT2871 also uses the above so in that regard they are similar.
Where they differ is on the size of the wheels, and that goes in favor of the ZFR/EFR.
Elff what do you mean by CH?
To my understanding the ZFR has all the parts except the modified flange to make it work with the OEM manifold.
I think the difference here is probably because of the tune/tuner and the problems with the OEM IC while in the Dyno.
There are quite a few Dyno sheets of ZFR in Cobalts going over 400WHP mark.
All I am going to say is stay tune....... we may or may not have a surprise coming..........

[Gentleman Jack]

I really like surprises!

The GJFR turbo is going to be the best of all.

[kwtoxman]

I understand it the same way as you LV, other than not examining the dual scroll. My guess is CH is compressor housing.

The ZFR/EFR wheel is much lighter too. Makes it spool like a smaller turbo, but the bigger size gives it more hp capability as well (and all the way to redline/higher). Unmatched combo.

There is a ton of ZFR LNF info out there as mentioned by LV. Things look bright for the kappa application.

I hope to see more as people get them on the kappas.

I didn't know the gmtech dyno was e47. Nice to know. I also read he got it to 500 whp.

[elff]

Yes I meant housing.

People are acting like this is going to give the same performance as an EFR Kit with a new exhaust manifold and I just don't see it.

I am also not a fan of anything ZZP. 
They have some sketchy products and I personally think their HP claims are exaggerated.

But more power to those who like them.
Buy this kit, install it and post up your 60-100 HP Tuner logs and Dyno's

Lets go from discussion to analytical proof.

[Sol Asylum]

Oh are you going to go there?  What are you like eleven uh I mean elven?

[blackbirdracing]

What about Pwerks?

They have an EFR that bolts to the stock manifold.

[SKY888]

I dont have any beef w/ ZZP.

I honestly think that they don't exagerate their dyno numbers.   If they do, howcome the dyno numbers of the zfr on the solstice is ONLY 320whp & 360tq?   Those are low numbers, IMO.

some of their products I will buy (zzp cams w/ big fuel lobe)  .....some I wont (5th injector kit).

vendors will really have to cater to their intended platform.    Most cobalt owners, are young and dont want to spend a lot of money.    So they have to cater to that....and that's why they have to develop products accordingly.

Just like vendors of the kappa platform, some vendors will market turbo kits for the budget conscious individuals.  And some vendors will market turbo kits that will have more whp, but you have to pay more.


ZFR has the borg warner EFR internal products, which is the cool thing about it.

The ZFR vs DDM comparisson......I have no comment.   I have no personal experience for both kits....and really didnt research alot about them.
Each person will have their own reasoning and preference.


The good news for the kappa crowd..............more vendors, more product choices for the DEAD platform..... 

so lets be gracious that there are still vendors that will give us performance products

[LatinVenom]

What about Pwerks?

They have an EFR that bolts to the stock manifold.

No they do not.

[LatinVenom]

Yes I meant housing.

People are acting like this is going to give the same performance as an EFR Kit with a new exhaust manifold and I just don't see it.

I am also not a fan of anything ZZP. 
They have some sketchy products and I personally think their HP claims are exaggerated.

But more power to those who like them.
Buy this kit, install it and post up your 60-100 HP Tuner logs and Dyno's

Lets go from discussion to analytical proof.

Elff:
Just because ZZP change the housing to incorporate the flange so it would fit the OEM manifold, does not mean they change the EFR-6758 design.
The chamber on the housing is proportional to the original EFR. The wheels and all other internal parts are Bog Warner.
The Dyno numbers on more than 1 Cobalt/HHR and there are many, attest to the performance of this product.
Understand, I am not and will not make comments or comparisons to the GT2871, the product and those who have it speak for themselves.
The OEM cast iron manifold is a very good design and as Dyno numbers with your GT2871 and ZFR-6758 have proven this.
Can it be improved? Yes, and that has also been done. However that does not take anything away from the great job the GM engineers did with the OEM manifold.

[elff]

I guess i will have to wait for some other kappa owners to pick up this kit and throw more hardware and tuning than Aaron did
Or
Wait until Aaron gets a less restrictive downpipe,upgraded intercooler and more aggressive tuning

Until then, all we have are his numbers which he honestly reported.
As such, i would trust further information from him.

For now, I have nothing to dissuade me from my opinion

[cdflint]

I'll get the ZZP ZRF. GJ, can I have some money?

[Gentleman Jack]

I'll get the ZZP ZRF. GJ, can I have some money?

Yes.

[elff]

The good news for the kappa crowd..............more vendors, more product choices for the DEAD platform..... 

so lets be gracious that there are still vendors that will give us performance products

Speaking of which
Has anyone every heard of this company?
[link removed, this company is looking to be a little shady.  I am not sure if its an actual company or a scam]

Crazy thing is, they are only 85 miles from me

[cdflint]

Yes.

Lets get back to me and my new sponser GJ. So what deviant thing do I have to do? Wait... Will it be enough money to buy the ZFR?

[Sol Asylum]

Before you go calling GJ a sponsor you might want to rephrase your question.  For example you should probably ask something along the lines of GJ can you give me some money?  Similar questions but probably not similar answers.

[Gentleman Jack]

Before you go calling GJ a sponsor you might want to rephrase your question.  For example you should probably ask something along the lines of GJ can you give me some money?  Similar questions but probably not similar answers.

Clearly.